Different Gospels

[frederickdoc]

I never say gospels There is Only One Gospel and the Gospel is an Everlasting Gospel I'm so ure its Life Parah and it Is witnes to The Book of life !
Best be in in Both The Everlasting Gospel & The Book of Life.

 

[Thaddeus]

Not that I can't, but stated that it will be forthcoming if only you would be forthcoming, and you're not.

MM

No you cannot. I previously asked you three questions relating to what Paul wrote in Gal2:17&18 and you could not answer them
There is head theology and spiritual discernment, and never the twain shall meet

 

[Thaddeus]

Red herring. Meaningless in relation to what I have asked of you that you refuse to answer.

MM

Well I suppose that is the best answer you could come up with in the circumstances
Oh and you were answered, but your inability to discern meant you couldn't understand

 

[Thaddeus]

That's indeed the battle cry of liberal theology.

MM

You do not understand Paul's theology, it is beyond you.

 

[frederickdoc]

In 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, Paul warns that minds can be corrupted away from Pure Faith, referencing "Another Jesus," a "Different Spirit," or a "Different Gospel". (The full text of 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 can be found

 

[Musicmaster]

I never say gospels There is Only One Gospel and the Gospel is an Everlasting Gospel I'm so ure its Life Parah and it Is witnes to The Book of life !
Best be in in Both The Everlasting Gospel & The Book of Life.

Did you read the OP and the verses provided, compare and contrast? Most people don't, which is they some continue to assume all the elements are the same, which in fact they are not.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

No you cannot. I previously asked you three questions relating to what Paul wrote in Gal2:17&18 and you could not answer them
There is head theology and spiritual discernment, and never the twain shall meet

I can and will answer your questions as soon as you answer mine as to why you can't do what Jesus said all will do who have the saving faith of which He spoke under the Kingdom Gospel. It appears you don't have that saving faith given that you can't even explain why you can't do what He said those will do who have that saving faith. Why do you refuse to answer that question?

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Well I suppose that is the best answer you could come up with in the circumstances
Oh and you were answered, but your inability to discern meant you couldn't understand

Some other woman's tears was your answer? Were her tears indicative of yours, in that you don't have that saving faith Jesus spoke would be evidenced by the things He said those would do who have faith? Are you faithless? Is that what you're saying? I'm just asking if that's your admission.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

In 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, Paul warns that minds can be corrupted away from Pure Faith, referencing "Another Jesus," a "Different Spirit," or a "Different Gospel". (The full text of 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 can be found

Yes, Paul did speak of the existence of another Gospel, which was that given to the twelve. Remember his declaration that he preached what he had received from no other man? He meant what he said, contrary to popular belief. The gospel preached by the twelve included the requirement for water baptism for remission of sins. The Gospel of Grace teaches that no work can supplement what Christ accomplished for us, nor can that work be the means through which we are saved today through remission of sins. That remission is entirely based upon what Christ did for us, not we for Him or for ourselves because do boast of that work for salvation, it's meaningless under grace.

Also promised to all those people under that Gospel was the ability to lay hands on and heal the sick, which you can't do, nor anyone else here, and to speak in diverse tongues and cast out demons. None of you folks can do that, and yet you claim you're under that other Gospel rather than under the Gospel of Grace preached by Paul.

Nobody can be saved by the Kingdom Gospel today, as is evidenced in the complete inability for anyone to do the things of which Jesus promised those folks that they would be able to do, those who believe. That Gospel is a works-based Gospel, under which none today can be saved. That's why Paul asked the Galatians who had bewitched them, the answer being the Judaizers.

The Judaizers today continue to vomit the works-based gospel, sadly, thus the bewitching continues...ad infinitum...ad nauseam...

MM

 

[Vucesa]

Just about everything can be questioned by someone, but here you go:

Matthew 10:5-8
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Do you see that which the twelve were instructed to preach? Heal the sick cast out devils, heal the lepers, pretty much similar that that stated in Mark 16.

Now, granted, there are those who like to play lingual and punctuational gymnastics by claiming that verse 8 is a shift in focus. They do so at the expense to honesty, for the Lord stated that in conjunction with the preaching the Kingdom of Heaven. Irrespective of the dishonest handling by the nay-sayers, the grammatical construct of the phrasing allows for no differentiation in focus nor direction, for they also were instructed to give freely as they had been given, which is a part of the message they were clearly instructed to preach to Israel.

So, are YOU onboard with the clarity of what's stated, or do you subscribe to the grammatical change games that others play with this?

Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Again, Israel is to be instructed to observe ALL THI|NGS the Lord commanded them through the disciples, which includes healing the sick, casting out demons, etc., and discipling the nations involves...powerlessness of power under the Kingdom Gospel.

It's interesting that you would appeal to questions about the canonized writings, in spite of hundreds of manuscript copies containing the latter verses of Mark 16. That's very convenient to appeal to just five manuscripts that disagree with each other at a far higher percentage than the Textus Receptus manuscripts, and with known edits as many as five times in places.

It seems that you really should do more homework before appealing to such base and inferior arguments vomited by liberal scholars in modern translations. Their appeals to antiquity is a fundamental fallacy many scholars knew to avoid.

MM

Didnt you just shoot yourself in the foot by quoting Matthew 28? It says to go into all nations, not just Israel. And furthermore, these signs are still present and happen. Craig Keener has a book about it as well.

You are simply overcomplicating and slicing the Bible in typical hyper-dispensationalist fashion to your own detriment, as Peter warned about Paul's letters which is what you are doing, why would Paul put a curse on the 12 who according to you did preach "another gospel".. Its such clear HERESY that nobody has ever taught, come on man. You honestly believe the great commission lasted for a few minutes and then the 12s message was swept under the rug and Paul was given a completely different messagE?? The Gospel isn't a blueprint of what to do, its not the death burial and resurrection, its not the coming kingdom of God, its not healing the sick. Its all of it, it simply means good news and there are more than one sentence worth of good news in the New Testament, all of it related to Christ

 

[Musicmaster]

Didnt you just shoot yourself in the foot by quoting Matthew 28? It says to go into all nations, not just Israel.

Much of Israel was indeed scattered across all nations, even in that time, but let's look at the proof for what I said:

Acts 11:19
Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

Galatians 2:7
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Some like violating the grammar by claiming there was only one gospel, and here we are seeing Paul referring to two gospels, that of the circumcision given to Peter to preach and that of the uncircumcision given unto Paul to preach...the very Gospel he had received of no man.

In your studies, did you ever glean that Paul persecuted the believing Jews on the basis of what he HAD learned from other men, including the twelve? And yet the Gospel of Grace given to him ONLY from Christ Jesus Himself, THAT is what he preached to the Gentiles and fellow Jews who had not yet heard the Kingdom Gospel preached by the twelve given that he refused to build upon another man's foundation? Intellectual honesty demands that we all read and accept the simplicity of what's stated.

And furthermore, these signs are still present and happen. Craig Keener has a book about it as well.

What about you? If that gospel Jesus and the twelve preached were still in force, then why can't you do the things Jesus Himself said would be done by ALL who believe His Gospel? Do you not have the faith of which He spoke? There's no shooting of one's own feet in all this except in the minds of those who claim something that's simply not in evidence, and the worst part is they all KNOW it, which is why they gravitate toward the cessationist defense to try and uphold what is indefensible.

You are simply overcomplicating and slicing the Bible in typical hyper-dispensationalist fashion to your own detriment, as Peter warned about Paul's letters. The Gospel isn't a blueprint of what to do, its not the death burial and resurrection, its not the coming kingdom of God, its not healing the sick. Its all of it, it simply means good news and there are more than one sentence worth of good news in the New Testament, all of it related to Christ

And here you are, laying the foundation of the Kingdom Gospel that not even you can evidence in any ability of which the very Christ of our salvation said ALL would be able to do, and He placed no time limit on those abilities contrary to the warps and twists of you people who overcomplicate it all with claims for cessationism.

So, please, if you're going to accuse, then please show evidence in support of your own inability to do as Jesus stated would be done by those who believe...if the Kingdom Gospel were indeed in force today, which it is not. Labeling the dispensation of which Paul spoke as being "hyper-dispensationalist" only shows to us all the beggarly and feeble wallowing about in the pit that so many are suffering when faced with the gross inconsistencies of their claims for a singular gospel.

MM

 

[Vucesa]

Much of Israel was indeed scattered across all nations, even in that time, but let's look at the proof for what I said:

Acts 11:19
Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

Galatians 2:7
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Some like violating the grammar by claiming there was only one gospel, and here we are seeing Paul referring to two gospels, that of the circumcision given to Peter to preach and that of the uncircumcision given unto Paul to preach...the very Gospel he had received of no man.

In your studies, did you ever glean that Paul persecuted the believing Jews on the basis of what he HAD learned from other men, including the twelve? And yet the Gospel of Grace given to him ONLY from Christ Jesus Himself, THAT is what he preached to the Gentiles and fellow Jews who had not yet heard the Kingdom Gospel preached by the twelve given that he refused to build upon another man's foundation? Intellectual honesty demands that we all read and accept the simplicity of what's stated.



What about you? If that gospel Jesus and the twelve preached were still in force, then why can't you do the things Jesus Himself said would be done by ALL who believe His Gospel? Do you not have the faith of which He spoke? There's no shooting of one's own feet in all this except in the minds of those who claim something that's simply not in evidence, and the worst part is they all KNOW it, which is why they gravitate toward the cessationist defense to try and uphold what is indefensible.



And here you are, laying the foundation of the Kingdom Gospel that not even you can evidence in any ability of which the very Christ of our salvation said ALL would be able to do, and He placed no time limit on those abilities contrary to the warps and twists of you people who overcomplicate it all with claims for cessationism.

So, please, if you're going to accuse, then please show evidence in support of your own inability to do as Jesus stated would be done by those who believe...if the Kingdom Gospel were indeed in force today, which it is not. Labeling the dispensation of which Paul spoke as being "hyper-dispensationalist" only shows to us all the beggarly and feeble wallowing about in the pit that so many are suffering when faced with the gross inconsistencies of their claims for a singular gospel.

MM

How about YOU? Do you speak in tongues? Prophecy? Heal the sick? Cause guess what, those same things are part of the epistles of Paul. 1 Corinthians 12-14 talks about the gifts of the Spirit and guess what, not all get the same gifts, same thing in Mark 16:16-17. Harmonize, its very easy to do if you dont have a paradigm you trying to shove into the Scriptures.

So your point is going nowhere its unheard of in church history and it accuses the 12 of preaching a false gospel that Paul would say is accursed. HERESY. Very serious heresy. And no water baptism? Unheard of in Church history. There are no unwater baptized Christians in the Bible. Even the Jailer to whom Paul spoke was water baptized. This is just heresy upon heresy.

 

[Musicmaster]

This manic distaste for the term "dispensation" by using it in a negative manner, this is so dominant among the uninformed and the Bible-Gospel-deniers:

1 Corinthians 9:17
For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

Ephesians 3:2
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Colossians 1:25
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

So, rather than slapping labels corrupted by misuse and misapplication, let's get on with discussion without labeling as a distraction from the core issues. This is no better than the Satanic overuse of the "race" card so over-played and abused by those who hate themselves and all others in life.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

How about YOU? Do you speak in tongues? Prophecy? Heal the sick? Cause guess what, those same things are part of the epistles of Paul. 1 Corinthians 12-14 talks about the gifts of the Spirit and guess what, not all get the same gifts, same thing in Mark 16:16-17. Harmonize, its very easy to do if you dont have a paradigm you trying to shove into the Scriptures.

Why equate spiritual gifting with gifting evidenced through what one can do for others that are on the supernatural level? Do you not see the error of inconsistency in your words? How is giving charity the same as laying hands on and healing the sick. I never laid claim to being under that gospel, but many others out here do claim to be under that Gospel and its promises, so where's the proof? Trying to turn the table on on the basis of claims I never made, that's gross dishonesty.

So your point is going nowhere its unheard of in church history and it accuses the 12 of preaching a false gospel that Paul would say is accursed. HERESY. Very serious heresy. And no water baptism? Unheard of in Church history. There are no unwater baptized Christians in the Bible. Even the Jailer to whom Paul spoke was water baptized. This is just heresy upon heresy.

Not at all. I never even hinted at the idea the twelve preached a false Gospel. Why not accept what Paul stated about the dispensation of the Gospel given to him is what true believers are under today, which is grace apart from works, for grace and works absolutely cannot be intermixed?

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

This seems to escape the notice of far too many. Why will you not accept this?

MM

 

[Thaddeus]

I can and will answer your questions as soon as you answer mine as to why you can't do what Jesus said all will do who have the saving faith of which He spoke under the Kingdom Gospel. It appears you don't have that saving faith given that you can't even explain why you can't do what He said those will do who have that saving faith. Why do you refuse to answer that question?

MM

Paul cast out spirits, and people were healed during Paul’s ministry, Paul spoke in tongues and a serpent could not kill him.

Things you say Jesus taught only to people not in the BOC. Your glaring inconsistencies are remarkable.

But as I previously told you, there is a price to pay, in order to have a healing ministry for example. A price very few will pay. It will not be paid by people making a god out of ‘’head theology’’ and desiring to spend their time discussing it. It will not be paid by people desiring a once a week Christianity consisting of simply turning up at church each week.

The Apostles gave up everything to spread the word and suffered much for it. They had such gifts working through them.

Your inability to understand this, shows a lack of spiritual discernment.

So as you find it hard to understand what I say I will embolden it:

I have never given up everything for the gospel, something I am ashamed of

BTW

So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to perform signs and wonders. Acts14:3


I persevered in demonstrating among you the marks of a true apostle, including signs, wonders and miracles. 2Cor12:12

 

[Thaddeus]

Some other woman's tears was your answer? Were her tears indicative of yours, in that you don't have that saving faith Jesus spoke would be evidenced by the things He said those would do who have faith? Are you faithless? Is that what you're saying? I'm just asking if that's your admission.

MM

That woman had a mighty ministry, whereas, you just have a head theology you like to discuss on the internet,

 

[Vucesa]

Why equate spiritual gifting with gifting evidenced through what one can do for others that are on the supernatural level? Do you not see the error of inconsistency in your words? How is giving charity the same as laying hands on and healing the sick. I never laid claim to being under that gospel, but many others out here do claim to be under that Gospel and its promises, so where's the proof? Trying to turn the table on on the basis of claims I never made, that's gross dishonesty.



Not at all. I never even hinted at the idea the twelve preached a false Gospel. Why not accept what Paul stated about the dispensation of the Gospel given to him is what true believers are under today, which is grace apart from works, for grace and works absolutely cannot be intermixed?

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

This seems to escape the notice of far too many. Why will you not accept this?

MM

I equate it because its the same thing, these are gifts of the Spirit, if you dont have them then by your own logic you arent even saved in the gospel of grace, you have no Holy Spirit, enjoy the false argumentation turned against you. You made that argument, be consistent, Paul teaches spiritual gifts also.

Water baptism is not works of the law, the law of Moses never tells anyone to be baptized in water. Nobody today is mixing works and grace, what we got today is grace abused and misunderstood.

I have warned you twice, and thats it. If you continue believing that there are TWO gospels, while the Bible teaches one "THE" singular one Gospel, good news ABOUT Jesus, ABOUT the kingdom, OF the kingdom, OF grace. Not different things.
Acts 19:8
Then Paul went into the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God.

Acts 28:31
proclaiming the kingdom of God and teaching the things concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with all boldness, freely.

Quoting from this article

"By comparison, Paul uses “the gospel” without any qualifier 27 times. This most common designation reflects his understanding that the gospel he preached was the same one preached by the Jerusalem church (Acts 15:22–30). Additionally, Paul uses “gospel of Christ” (e.g., Rom. 15:19) and “gospel of God” (e.g., 1 Thess. 2:2) in ways that parallel Mark 1:1 and 1:14. The gospel revealed to Paul (Gal. 1:11–12) aligns with Jesus’s plan—that the Gentiles would hear the good news of Jesus’s kingship, which enables people to be saved (Matt. 24:14; 26:13; Mark 13:10; 14:9; Luke 24:44–49).

 

[Thaddeus]

Non dispensationalists accept more of what Paul wrote than dispensationalists do. They only like the part their itching ears want to hear. Ask them to explain passages of Paul's writings using discernment and they refuse to do it, or cannot do it

 

[Musicmaster]

I equate it because its the same thing, these are gifts of the Spirit, if you dont have them then by your own logic you arent even saved in the gospel of grace, you have no Holy Spirit, enjoy the false argumentation turned against you. You made that argument, be consistent, Paul teaches spiritual gifts also.

How many people have you laid hands upon and they were healed instantly? How many demons have you cast out? How many languages have you spoken that you never had to learn? Jesus spoke of miraculous things that defy the modern falsehoods we see among Charismatic circles in programs and demonstrations. Spiritual giftings are not the same as healing, casting out demons, being bitten by a venomous reptile or drinking poison and it not hurting you. No. This is just too convenient and is a dodge of the clear language stated and quoted to you in this thread.

Water baptism is not works of the law, the law of Moses never tells anyone to be baptized in water. Nobody today is mixing works and grace, what we got today is grace abused and misunderstood.

Then you reject Paul's argument. Very telling indeed.

I have warned you twice, and thats it. If you continue believing that there are TWO gospels, while the Bible teaches one "THE" singular one Gospel, good news ABOUT Jesus, ABOUT the kingdom, OF the kingdom, OF grace. Not different things.
Acts 19:8
Then Paul went into the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God.

Acts 28:31
proclaiming the kingdom of God and teaching the things concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with all boldness, freely.

Quoting from this article

"By comparison, Paul uses “the gospel” without any qualifier 27 times. This most common designation reflects his understanding that the gospel he preached was the same one preached by the Jerusalem church (Acts 15:22–30). Additionally, Paul uses “gospel of Christ” (e.g., Rom. 15:19) and “gospel of God” (e.g., 1 Thess. 2:2) in ways that parallel Mark 1:1 and 1:14. The gospel revealed to Paul (Gal. 1:11–12) aligns with Jesus’s plan—that the Gentiles would hear the good news of Jesus’s kingship, which enables people to be saved (Matt. 24:14; 26:13; Mark 13:10; 14:9; Luke 24:44–49).

Your continued rejection of the word of God that has been quoted, showing the differing elements within the Kingdom Gospel in relation to the Gospel of Grace preached by Paul, that level of willful blindness is quite staggering in itself, and very modern and post modern.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Non dispensationalists accept more of what Paul wrote than dispensationalists do. They only like the part their itching ears want to hear. Ask them to explain passages of Paul's writings using discernment and they refuse to do it, or cannot do it

That's like saying that non-biblicists accpet more of what Paul taught than biblicists. I've quoted Paul's words on all this, clearly showing the differences between his preaching and that of the twelve, and you reject them. The dichotomy in your words are remarkable.

MM