Do Animals Enter Condemnation or Paradise?
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21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
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Poinsetta
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Poinsetta
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Poinsetta
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Ruby123
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I would love to be reunited with my cat, she was adorable but I remember a pastor saying something about the sheer volume of animals would be too great to all be in heaven.
- i never asked if animals have a spirit
- i didn't ask anyone to decide who goes to hell or not
- but to think about what they know from scripture and apply it to the question
- admittedly yes i have an opinion on the subject, and think i can justify that opinion
- when am convinced of something, yes, i do speak confidently about it
- i'm interested in what others think, to add to my understanding
- i'm interested in opposing views being justified through the Bible
- in case i may be wrong, then i may also be taught
- this was the topic of my pastor's sermon on sunday night
- thought i'd 'poll the audience'
- i knew it would be of particular interest to some to discuss
- it's not one of those threads where we call each other heretics and blasphemers and break fellowship
- i suspected that we might all actually agree in large part
- which is a rare, and wonderful thing - 'like precious ointment on the head'
all that being said,
i'd like to personally offer a public apology to you for my having made this discussion topic
**sorry**
I suppose animals are a bit like angels - they have to watch on while we make a mess of everything
I said in my heart,
“Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.”
For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?
(Ecclesiastes 3:18-21, nkjv)
Solomon says God intends to make us know that we are just like the animals,that we all have the same breath, that we all are made of dust and return to dust.
he writes this as though yes, the creature has a spirit - no different than man, who is himself a creature
he also writes this as tho the spirit of the creature continues existing after the body returns to dust:
the body is from dust, and returns to dust. the spirit tho: what happens to it? it isn't made of dust; does it go to dust?
verse 21 is a question - footnotes from my nkjv say:
Ecclesiastes 3:21 LXX, Syr., Tg., Vg. Who knows whether the spirit . . . goes upward, and whether . . . goes downward to the earth?
which jives with the following verse:So I perceived that nothing is better than that a man should rejoice in his own works, for that is his lot. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?
(Ecclesiastes 3:22)
who knows what will happen after our bodies go back to dust?does the spirit of the creature go up or go down? - men are 'living creatures' too
later towards the end of the writing, Solomon answers the question, where does the spirit go when it's separated from the body?
Remember your Creator before the silver cord is loosed,
Or the golden bowl is broken,
Or the pitcher shattered at the fountain,
Or the wheel broken at the well.
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
And the spirit will return to God who gave it.
(Ecclesiastes 12:6-7)
the question from 3:21 here has its conclusion:the body is dust and goes to dust
the spirit is heavenly and returns to God who gave it
which is,
the spirit of life is a gift, and it doesn't die like the body of dust does.
remembering chapter 3 when we get to chapter 12, Solomon is saying this about man and other creatures alike
the spirit of life is from God; He gives it to us; it returns to Him.
is this evidence of the eternal existence of that life?
@de-emerald
please forgive me for having a little knowledge and understanding of scripture and sharing it with others
it's become a habit!
please forgive me for having a little knowledge and understanding of scripture and sharing it with others
it's become a habit!
In the OT spirit is the breath of life force. Soul is used like there were 999 souls on the plane when it went down. It is not referring to the NT development of the word soul.
Isaiah 11:6, "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them." (This sounds as if we will have pets in heaven, does it not?)
Isaiah 11:7-9, "The cow and the bear shall graze; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole, and the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea"
Isaiah 65:25, "The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD."
Isaiah 11:7-9, "The cow and the bear shall graze; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole, and the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea"
Isaiah 65:25, "The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD."
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Ruby123
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Oh my! As if Heaven is too small to hold us all. That settles it then, right?
Post is a lovely person and beloved brother in Christ. Perhaps some day your eyes will be opened to how wrong you are in your estimations in above post. It seems uncalled for and quite frankly, out of character for you.
I have heard it said that some people would prefer there to be no spiders, poisonous snakes, or mosquitos (and the like; let's also add beasts such as crocodiles, alligators, and other man-eaters) in paradise, but really, what need of them to live on the blood of others in such a place as that? Especially when Scripture plainly says: The wolf will live with the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the goat; the calf and young lion and fatling will be together, and a little child will lead them. The cow will graze with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play by the cobra’s den, and the toddler will reach into the viper’s nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all My holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the sea is full of water. ... For you will have a covenant with the stones of the field, and the wild animals will be at peace with you.
Heaven? Um, hmmmm. Let us remember that life ever after is lived on Earth
