Do Jews Need Jesus? A Response to John Hagee and CUFI (Christians United for Israel)

[zone]

Here is what the future holds for Israel, Germany and Egypt...

Isa 19:18 In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts; one shall be called, The city of destruction.
Isa 19:19 In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD.
Isa 19:20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.
Isa 19:21 And the LORD shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and perform it.
Isa 19:22 And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.
Isa 19:23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
Isa 19:24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:
Isa 19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

In Anglo-Israelism and some currents of U.S. Christian fundamentalism, the idea has been advanced that modern Germans are partly descended from the ancient Assyrians, or, more metaphorically draw parallels between the militarism of the Nazi Germany and the Assyrian one. Proposed German-Assyrian connections are not current among mainstream historians, anthropologists, archaeologists or historical linguists.

As with Anglo-Israelism itself, proposed German-Assyrian connections enjoy no empirical support and are not current among mainstream historians, anthropologists, archaeologists or historical linguists.

Assyria and Germany in Anglo-Israelism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[RedTent]

I wonder if Zone thinks that what the Muslims call God is the God of the Old Testament?

I think if Zone would read scripture first, instead of all those books she is so deep into, she could become a man of God.

 

[ServantStrike]

it's not even Christian Dominionism per say.
some other weird thing.
it would be one thing if the Dominionism was at least based on some kind of orthodoxy...not convinced that's possible, but you know what i mean.
like.....set up Israel to be a totalitarian something-or-other with nukes and strife and whatnot... because you think you're blasting off in a rapture?
wow.

Yeah it does go beyond conquering the world so Jesus can come back doesn't it.

More like make it as bloody and as messy as possible so He has to come back.

This is something we all need to know. Who is God the God of? Why did God create a race of people separate from gentiles? How do those people relate to us? When God made covenants with those people, did He have us in mind at all, and where do we fit in? Does God see people by race and color?

I think God sees all people as equal, that God created the Hebrew race with all people in mind. God said he used them for our benefit.

He still made a promise to the descendants of Abraham. He doesn't break promises. We are grafted into the vine, although that does not give the Jewish people a justification for rejecting Christ. I think we can all agree that Christ is the only path to salvation. Anything else is a strange gospel.


Romans 11 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And David says,
“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
And a stumbling block and a retribution to them.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]“Let their eyes be darkened to see not,
And bend their backs forever.”

[SUP]11 [/SUP]I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their [SUP][f][/SUP]fulfillment be! [SUP]13 [/SUP]But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, [SUP]14 [/SUP]if somehow I might move to jealousy my [SUP][g][/SUP]fellow countrymen and save some of them. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? [SUP]16 [/SUP]If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the [SUP][h][/SUP]rich root of the olive tree, [SUP]18 [/SUP]do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.

 

[Ritter]

In Anglo-Israelism and some currents of U.S. Christian fundamentalism, the idea has been advanced that modern Germans are partly descended from the ancient Assyrians, or, more metaphorically draw parallels between the militarism of the Nazi Germany and the Assyrian one. Proposed German-Assyrian connections are not current among mainstream historians, anthropologists, archaeologists or historical linguists.

As with Anglo-Israelism itself, proposed German-Assyrian connections enjoy no empirical support and are not current among mainstream historians, anthropologists, archaeologists or historical linguists.

Assyria and Germany in Anglo-Israelism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm mostly German, but I love Eastern cuisine...

 

[BradC]

that's right i do.

CHRISTIANS DON'T CALL FOR WAR.



see how sick this is?
it's a sickness RED.

CHRISTIANS DON'T CALL FOR WAR.

Do you have the same compassion for the Jews of Israel as you do for the Muslims in the region or any of these others groups of people you have mentioned? If you do then let us hear what you have to say. Do you condemn the Muslims for their hatred toward Israel and their plight to destroy Israel? What is your compassion for Israel and does your intercession for them match up with your compassion? You sure like to complain and moan about them and those who do good to them and I see no compassion in that. Where is the light that you are to 'so shine' unto men, especially unto the Jews of Israel (first) that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven? Where is your light and the works associated with that light? Got any? You condemn Pastor Hagee and others for shining the light of God's goodness toward Israel but what do you have to show in terms of good fruit with them? Do you have any fruit? If you do have any fruit it certainly is not coming from the fruit of your lips.

BradC

 

[jahsoul]

I'm not zone, but I do have my own answers and comments.

Do you have the same compassion for the Jews of Israel as you do for the Muslims in the region or any of these others groups of people you have mentioned?

I do because God is not a respecter of person, and neither am I.

If you do then let us hear what you have to say. Do you condemn the Muslims for their hatred toward Israel and their plight to destroy Israel?

We should condemn all hatred but I've read a lot of places that they don't hate Jews, but Zionism. Crap, their is a Jewish population that isn't oppressed in Iran. Shoot, lots of Jews around the world hate Zionism, but people get so obsessed with the fact that they named the land Israel, they can give a blind eye to all of its misdeeds (false flags, preemptive war, Gaza, etc.). The question should be posed, do you condemn the state of Israel for their transgressions?

What is your compassion for Israel and does your intercession for them match up with your compassion? You sure like to complain and moan about them and those who do good to them and I see no compassion in that.

Intercession match compassion? So it's commanded that I do good for some and not others as others do? I don't have compassion for land, but I have compassion for all man, and it makes no difference if they live in the State of Israel, Iran, Asia, African, Europe, wherever..

Where is the light that you are to 'so shine' unto men, especially unto the Jews of Israel (first) that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven?

Your addition is not Biblical (or even can be assumed) so it will be left as that.

Where is your light and the works associated with that light? Got any? You condemn Pastor Hagee and others for shining the light of God's goodness toward Israel but what do you have to show in terms of good fruit with them? Do you have any fruit? If you do have any fruit it certainly is not coming from the fruit of your lips.

BradC

Pastor Hagee is condemned because he believes in the heresy of dual covenant. John Hagee is condemned because of lies like this:

[video=vimeo;33784563]http://vimeo.com/33784563[/video]

How can you say that John Hagee shines the light of God's goodness towards Israel when he doesn't preach Christ to them? Is praying for war in the name of Jesus considered fruit?

John Hagee with Benny Hinn: Praying For War in the Name of Jesus - YouTube

John Hagee isn't condemned for any work that he does. He is condemned for the heresies he speaks and believe.

 

[zone]

Do you have the same compassion for the Jews of Israel as you do for the Muslims in the region or any of these others groups of people you have mentioned? If you do then let us hear what you have to say. Do you condemn the Muslims for their hatred toward Israel and their plight to destroy Israel? What is your compassion for Israel and does your intercession for them match up with your compassion? You sure like to complain and moan about them and those who do good to them

arming them to the teeth; enabling their unbelief; encouraging them in their belief they are in God's favor while rejecting Christ; not even bothering to find out GOD says about who is His people....etc etc....is not doing good to them.

not to mention this kind of thing:

"Another thing, if I may, this water baptism by immersion that we have as NT believers was never given to Israel or its commonwealth because this baptism involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new, a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man, and that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth." - BradC"

like really.
pur-double-eeze.
old old old.

get your own house in order.

 

[jahsoul]

"Another thing, if I may, this water baptism by immersion that we have as NT believers was never given to Israel or its commonwealth because this baptism involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new, a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man, and that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth." - BradC"

So John baptized Gentiles? Or do Jews get sprinkled and Gentiles get dunked? *shrugs*

 

[zone]

So John baptized Gentiles? Or do Jews get sprinkled and Gentiles get dunked? *shrugs*

no...his idea is that the new covenant with all it's blessings for the church were never promised to Israel.
apparently all that excluded Israel as a commonwealth and a nation.

figure that one out.

anyways....laterz

 

[jahsoul]

no...his idea is that the new covenant with all it's blessings for the church were never promised to Israel.
apparently all that excluded Israel as a commonwealth and a nation.

figure that one out.

anyways....laterz

Considering that the early church consisted of primarily Jews.........nevermind. *walks off*

 

[BradC]

arming them to the teeth; enabling their unbelief; encouraging them in their belief they are in God's favor while rejecting Christ; not even bothering to find out GOD says about who is His people....etc etc....is not doing good to them.

not to mention this kind of thing:

"Another thing, if I may, this water baptism by immersion that we have as NT believers was never given to Israel or its commonwealth because this baptism involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new, a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man, and that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth." - BradC"

like really.
pur-double-eeze.
old old old.

get your own house in order.

Baptismal regeneration is a damnable doctrine and you believe it and you practice it and you preach it when it is convenient. Don't deny it or try to hide yourself from being associated with it. Shedding the blood of animals is more efficacious in its desired effect to atone for sin then any abstract baptismal regeneration that you propagate as part of your gospel. The shame is on you and your cohorts that love to propagate this stuff having no compassion or mercy or grace regulated in their heart through the love of God.

 

[zone]

Baptismal regeneration is a damnable doctrine and you believe it and you practice it and you preach it when it is convenient. Don't deny it or try to hide yourself from being associated with it. Shedding the blood of animals is more efficacious in its desired effect to atone for sin then any abstract baptismal regeneration that you propagate as part of your gospel. The shame is on you and your cohorts that love to propagate this stuff having no compassion or mercy or grace regulated in their heart through the love of God.

i guess you should let me know how to correct your doctrinal position here then, so when it's posted in the future, it will reflect your new position:

"Another thing, if I may, this water baptism by immersion that we have as NT believers was never given to Israel or its commonwealth because this baptism involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new, a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man, and that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth." - BradC"

 

[Linda70]

Baptismal regeneration is a false doctrine. Water baptism by immersion has not, nor ever will save anyone. The requirement for baptism is repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and it is an ordinance of the New Testament church. Baptism identifies one with Christ and depicts salvation-dying with Christ and being raised to eternal life with Him (Romans 6:3-6). Baptism shows the Gospel-the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

 

[BradC]

Baptismal regeneration is a damnable doctrine and you believe it and you practice it and you preach it when it is convenient. Don't deny it or try to hide yourself from being associated with it. Shedding the blood of animals is more efficacious in its desired effect to atone for sin then any abstract baptismal regeneration that you propagate as part of your gospel. The shame is on you and your cohorts that love to propagate this stuff having no compassion or mercy or grace regulated in their heart through the love of God.

Zone, have you confessed and repented of your false doctrine of baptismal regeneration or are going to be an advocate of it? Pastor Hagee does not teach baptismal regeneration, nor do Spirit filled believers. What makes you think that you are worthy of partaking of communion having such a damnable doctrine that you adhere to in your faith? You need to purge out the leaven of this damnable doctrine because it does not show the Lord's death and has no power to regenerate the soul as you believe it has. Not only is it a damnable doctrine but you make it part of your gospel by giving it the power of regeneration that can only come through the Holy Spirit and through faith in the living God.

You err by substituting faith with an act of baptismal regeneration and you try an procure salvation by proxy for those who have no understanding or capacity to receive grace and be justified by the blood of the cross. Your doctrine of baptismal regeneration has the same kind of implications as transubstantiation does for those who partake of communion. In transubstantiation the bread and wine that is received and blessed is believed to literally become the body and blood of Christ, while in baptismal regeneration the act of water baptize procures the blessing of regeneration for the unregenerate soul whether as an infant or otherwise. A little leaven will eventually leaven the whole lump.

 

[Praus]

I don't listen to what John Hagee says. The video is in response to John Hagee's false dual covenant theology.

You don't listen to what John Hagee says?

It was YOU and John Hagee who agreed that the Nazi Holocaust was the fulfillment of prophecy...don't you remember?

That was a pretty good 2 min. video of John Hagee and what he said was fulfillment of prophecy.

 

[zone]

Zone, have you confessed and repented of your false doctrine of baptismal regeneration or are going to be an advocate of it? Pastor Hagee does not teach baptismal regeneration, nor do Spirit filled believers. What makes you think that you are worthy of partaking of communion having such a damnable doctrine that you adhere to in your faith? You need to purge out the leaven of this damnable doctrine because it does not show the Lord's death and has no power to regenerate the soul as you believe it has. Not only is it a damnable doctrine but you make it part of your gospel by giving it the power of regeneration that can only come through the Holy Spirit and through faith in the living God.

You err by substituting faith with an act of baptismal regeneration and you try an procure salvation by proxy for those who have no understanding or capacity to receive grace and be justified by the blood of the cross. Your doctrine of baptismal regeneration has the same kind of implications as transubstantiation does for those who partake of communion. In transubstantiation the bread and wine that is received and blessed is believed to literally become the body and blood of Christ, while in baptismal regeneration the act of water baptize procures the blessing of regeneration for the unregenerate soul whether as an infant or otherwise. A little leaven will eventually leaven the whole lump.

but: you yourself declared christian baptism was connected to regeneration:

"Another thing, if I may, this water baptism by immersion that we have as NT believers was never given to Israel or its commonwealth because this baptism involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new, a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man, and that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth." - BradC"

and you also said the jews were never given baptism...since dat's for the church, and the jews shall never enter the christian church - John Nelson Darby Dispo.

don't know who John the Baptist was baptizing, don't know who Peter said repent and be baptized; etc.

please advise.

and stop trying to deflect from your own false doctrines.

 

[BradC]

but: you yourself declared christian baptism was connected to regeneration:

"Another thing, if I may, this water baptism by immersion that we have as NT believers was never given to Israel or its commonwealth because this baptism involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new, a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man, and that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth." - BradC"

and you also said the jews were never given baptism...since dat's for the church, and the jews shall never enter the christian church - John Nelson Darby Dispo.

don't know who John the Baptist was baptizing, don't know who Peter said repent and be baptized; etc.

please advise.

and stop trying to deflect from your own false doctrines.

Bad try! Any Spirit filled believer with sound doctrine knows that water baptism through immersion is an individual act of obedience and step of faith that is taken to demonstrate the death, burial and resurrection of Christ that the believer has entered into through salvation and their desire to follow Christ in that act of obedience. Out with the old and in with the new and the devil and his demons don't like to see that. That is all it means and it has no power to regenerate or bring resurrection life. This baptism was not part of the commonwealth of Israel prior to the cross or under John's baptism and I would hope that you would know that as a believer who professes Christ. Repent of your baptismal regeneration and come clean of that leaven.

 

[p_rehbein]

John Hagee was the inspiration for the "Ignore" button/option...........wasn't he?

 

[zone]

Bad try! Any Spirit filled believer with sound doctrine knows that water baptism through immersion is an individual act of obedience and step of faith that is taken to demonstrate the death, burial and resurrection of Christ that the believer has entered into through salvation and their desire to follow Christ in that act of obedience. Out with the old and in with the new and the devil and his demons don't like to see that.

but this is what YOU said:

"Another thing, if I may, this water baptism by immersion that we have as NT believers was never given to Israel or its commonwealth because this baptism involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new, a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man, and that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth." - BradC"

so whatchu want me to do?
you said dat.

This baptism was not part of the commonwealth of Israel prior to the cross or under John's baptism and I would hope that you would know that as a believer who professes Christ. Repent of your baptismal regeneration and come clean of that leaven.

a-a-a-a-a-and none of the Church's Promises; Christ; baptism; blessings' New Covenant; Bride of Christ....were OFFERED TO ISRAEL...THEY WERE EXCLUDED....according to - BradC

i'll post your exact quote again...just to make sure.

k.....ttyl

 

[BradC]

but this is what YOU said:

"Another thing, if I may, this water baptism by immersion that we have as NT believers was never given to Israel or its commonwealth because this baptism involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new, a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man, and that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth." - BradC"

so whatchu want me to do?
you said dat.



a-a-a-a-a-and none of the Church's Promises; Christ; baptism; blessings' New Covenant; Bride of Christ....were OFFERED TO ISRAEL...THEY WERE EXCLUDED....according to - BradC

i'll post your exact quote again...just to make sure.

k.....ttyl

Here's the whole quote once again and this time you just might understand it. It is so simple and uncomplicated, but repetition can sometimes help amplify a point that needs to be made with those who have a problem understanding. Let's act like grownups and see if we can come to some kind of mutual understanding.

Any Spirit filled believer with sound doctrine knows that water baptism through immersion is an individual act of obedience and step of faith that is taken to demonstrate the death, burial and resurrection of Christ that the believer has entered into through salvation and their desire to follow Christ in that act of obedience. Out with the old and in with the new and the devil and his demons don't like to see that. That is all it means and it has no power to regenerate or bring resurrection life. This baptism was not part of the commonwealth of Israel prior to the cross or under John's baptism and I would hope that you would know that as a believer who professes Christ. Repent of your baptismal regeneration and come clean of that leaven. Pastor John Hagee does not preach this erroneous doctrine of baptismal regeneration which saves no one, not the Jew nor the Gentiles, in this life or the next to come.

Have you truly trusted in the blood of Christ for the remission of your sin or do you just like to have extensive Bible talk with others. I wonder sometimes if some people take on religious spirits who intellectually and 'spiritually' bath themselves in knowledge and doctrine clothed by the words of scripture but do not have a renewed mind or the power of a transformed life through the Holy Spirit, one that has been spiritually raised with Christ through death to the old man Adam. Perhaps we should examine your life in the same manner as you have done to so many others and see what we find. Is that permitted or are we to restrain ourselves and abstain from such a practice?