Do our words carry the same power as God?

[Blade]

Here are some hard facts:

About 8.3% of the entire worlds population is Pentecostal or Charismatic....not the overwhelming majority as being expressed here

About 15.3% is Baptist.....not wof or nar or whatever else

And then we also have Lutherans, more than 200 denoms of others in the US alone, etc

I don't have all day (in fact should be working right now so will get back to it) to inform y'all of the huge numbers of believers or say they are believers, that are NOT wof, nar or other flavors of Pentecostalism

So when someone goes off and makes all these declarations such as have been made in this thread, it behooves a person who actually does research to intervene and make plain the fact this thread is shot full of error and not much good for reproof at all

back to work then

Your casting pearls..
"If you say that someone is casting pearls before swine, you mean that they are wasting their time by offering something that is helpful or valuable to someone who does not appreciate or understand it.cast pearls"

Its trying to talk about the spiritual but it keeps going back to the natural. You said "does research" that is not what this is about. Would seem never is. Like they say the sun is yellow. You tell them no its white if you go above the earth you see the sun white. Later you read more posts by them "the sun is yellow".

This name it claim it, did the op say sorry didn't search got it wrong? Did anyone that say this about them say oops I was wrong? In his own Church on video more then once "we got it wrong we repented". What I left out is he never really said it like that in the past but took all the blame today. Like Hagin who never said name it claim it but all his life in book video (I just watched it again) "you have to make sure what your asking for, praying for is in the word of God" Backed up by scripture. I am no one I searched. Like caught up Rapture no matter what you say it falls on deaf ears and all you keep reading is "1830". I have the world of info in front of me. I read saw the scrolls by a hymn writer 300-400ad then other times I quoted many during the 100+ AD that talked about it also. Then what do you read? "Rapture started in 1830". Oh praise GOD.

So this was never in my eyes about "my words have the same power of God". Where is that written? Oh be so wonderful to chat debate the scripture not the person. I can't do this for ANY preacher out there. My sin my faults my doctrines I believe are no better. Oh the moment I start pointing fingers talking about HIS kids when they are not here.. I will get my Fathers attention big time! I will be judged on how I am judging His kids. Some of you have no clue what your doing.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Really? The majority in Christianity? Your ignorance of the facts is alarming. You should stop making these sweeping statements.

I am without doubt far more informed of the topic than are you. You evidence your knowledge and I don't do that. I simply counter when I find such ill informed topics or statements such as you are making.

You seem to have no fear of saying whatever without being able to back it up. wof is not mainstream Christianity and it is actually a movement of some years now, within Pentecostalism

Before I even address these wall of posts I'll point out the eagerness to assume something. Straw-man arguments.
I said,

Definitely not the minority. That tells me that you are not current with the movement and how much it has grown.

But I agree God does still heal.

Please someone show me where I said majority?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Really? The majority in Christianity? Your ignorance of the facts is alarming. You should stop making these sweeping statements.

I am without doubt far more informed of the topic than are you. You evidence your knowledge and I don't do that. I simply counter when I find such ill informed topics or statements such as you are making.

You seem to have no fear of saying whatever without being able to back it up. wof is not mainstream Christianity and it is actually a movement of some years now, within Pentecostalism

So as evident from my post I never said majority. But the problem falls into the term of movement. The teachings have infilterated even the most reformed churches to some degree. Some more than others. Once you study the topics in the OP or NAR beliefs then you will see what I speak of.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Why won't you deal with the scripture from Ephesians that I posted a few posts back? You say you only use scripture as your source
then let's discuss why you refuse the instructions given in Ephesians and while we are at, kindly show from scripture any verse or passage that indicates the demons/devil cannot be in the vicinity of the Spirit of God

Get serious and deal with the reality of scripture and not your opinions confirmed by what you call research that concludes with your own opinions

Don't even respond if you cannot address putting on the armor, the reason for it and why Paul tells us we are wrestling with evil powers. According to you, none of that is necessary......demons are powerless and we just do nothing. Nope.

Since you asked. Hopefully this will eliminate assumptions. Opinions do not matter. The only thing that matters is do what we say match scripture.

My Armor of God 11 part series
https://1drv.ms/w/s!AvrBAxgnP5rPowJk71cWw2_L0FZx

My Critique of a Deliverance minister
https://1drv.ms/w/s!AvrBAxgnP5rPq1Q0sDoJsjd4Aoea

 

[Roughsoul1991]

There are many sources. And many errors in modern translations. I know what the translations say and if you actually were a scholar of Greek you would disagree with them.

Most people are not Christians. If I conclude a belief from that type of statement, as the method you use to confirm supposed truth of your opinions, then I would conclude Christians are wrong.

Honestly, you really do not know how to do actual research.

Seriously 😂 I should disagree with all the translations that say demon possessed? Okay....

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Here are some hard facts:

About 8.3% of the entire worlds population is Pentecostal or Charismatic....not the overwhelming majority as being expressed here

About 15.3% is Baptist.....not wof or nar or whatever else

And then we also have Lutherans, more than 200 denoms of others in the US alone, etc

I don't have all day (in fact should be working right now so will get back to it) to inform y'all of the huge numbers of believers or say they are believers, that are NOT wof, nar or other flavors of Pentecostalism

So when someone goes off and makes all these declarations such as have been made in this thread, it behooves a person who actually does research to intervene and make plain the fact this thread is shot full of error and not much good for reproof at all

back to work then

Here are some hard facts:

About 8.3% of the entire worlds population is Pentecostal or Charismatic....not the overwhelming majority as being expressed here

No amount of polling can determine the reach and influence of doctrines. Just asking people to classify as a group will not prove my point. Maybe a worldview assessment and beliefs will determine the reach of the OP definitions.

About 15.3% is Baptist.....not wof or nar or whatever else

And then we also have Lutherans, more than 200 denoms of others in the US alone, etc

Again, this does nothing to disprove the reach of false doctrines.

I don't have all day (in fact should be working right now so will get back to it) to inform y'all of the huge numbers of believers or say they are believers, that are NOT wof, nar or other flavors of Pentecostalism

As to why much of these teachings are not under the umbrella of a denomination but instead a movement carried into all areas.

So when someone goes off and makes all these declarations such as have been made in this thread, it behooves a person who actually does research to intervene and make plain the fact this thread is shot full of error and not much good for reproof at all

back to work then

The evidence and reality speak for themselves. Scriptures speak against the definitions in the OP.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Why won't you deal with the scripture from Ephesians that I posted a few posts back? You say you only use scripture as your source
then let's discuss why you refuse the instructions given in Ephesians and while we are at, kindly show from scripture any verse or passage that indicates the demons/devil cannot be in the vicinity of the Spirit of God

Get serious and deal with the reality of scripture and not your opinions confirmed by what you call research that concludes with your own opinions

Don't even respond if you cannot address putting on the armor, the reason for it and why Paul tells us we are wrestling with evil powers. According to you, none of that is necessary......demons are powerless and we just do nothing. Nope.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/essay/demon-possession/

I believe the best evidence is in context. You have no evidence of a Christian in scripture needing an exorcism. It was always either a Jew or unsaved Gentile.

We are also told in scripture those who are of the world are children of Satan. Making them ripe for possession as Judah found out at the Last Supper when Satan took ahold of him.

Possession is also understood by Biblical context not modern movies. Biblical context provides the image not as a puppet although some instances like Matt 8:28 show that but in others like the the dumb and deaf son the demon had possession over his speech and hearing. and Mark 9:17 says, “wherever it seizes him”. Which implies the demon could possess as it wills, when it wills.

But of course, in context when Jesus healed not every illness was demonic.

But again, there is no scripture evidence or even commands for a Christian to be delivered from demonic possession. Spiritual warfare for the Christian is spoken of but not exorcisms (for the Christian).

We are not possessed by anything but the Holy Spirit. We may be harmed by sinful choices. Natural illnesses or even God can allow illness through the demonic as seen in Paul's thorn in the flesh. But notice that was given by God and nothing Paul could do to take it away.

 

[Niki7]

Hello! Thanks for the reply.



They certainly are. I was surprised to discover how many Christians I knew from various denominations were listening to music from sources such as Hillsong, Elevation or Bethel. Worship music contains teaching and Theology, dodgy lyrics and the feeling of Euphoria gained through loud and exuberant music which reduces inhibitions can lead people down the wrong path. I knew a Baptist who was wary of the 'NAR' but who's favorite music came from Bethel! Some folks attend a 'cessationist' church and get into the car home to listen to Elevation or Hillsong. Their teachings creep into virtually every church, through a variety of paths, music being one, hence the billions of hits these groups and churches get on the internet. Every hit gives momentum and revenue to the WOF and NAR.

I attended a cousin's funeral last year, she being a Roman Catholic and two of the songs were from the above.

Like it or not I'm thinking that this stuff is in the mainstream now. In the days of itching ears WOF/ NAR are making a lot of noise. God Bless You

Music has always been a tool of the devil. We have to decide what we listen to and participate in. The lack of interaction between many Christians with God when not in a church has resulted in what we see today.

 

[Niki7]

Your casting pearls..
"If you say that someone is casting pearls before swine, you mean that they are wasting their time by offering something that is helpful or valuable to someone who does not appreciate or understand it.cast pearls"

Its trying to talk about the spiritual but it keeps going back to the natural. You said "does research" that is not what this is about. Would seem never is. Like they say the sun is yellow. You tell them no its white if you go above the earth you see the sun white. Later you read more posts by them "the sun is yellow".

This name it claim it, did the op say sorry didn't search got it wrong? Did anyone that say this about them say oops I was wrong? In his own Church on video more then once "we got it wrong we repented". What I left out is he never really said it like that in the past but took all the blame today. Like Hagin who never said name it claim it but all his life in book video (I just watched it again) "you have to make sure what your asking for, praying for is in the word of God" Backed up by scripture. I am no one I searched. Like caught up Rapture no matter what you say it falls on deaf ears and all you keep reading is "1830". I have the world of info in front of me. I read saw the scrolls by a hymn writer 300-400ad then other times I quoted many during the 100+ AD that talked about it also. Then what do you read? "Rapture started in 1830". Oh praise GOD.

So this was never in my eyes about "my words have the same power of God". Where is that written? Oh be so wonderful to chat debate the scripture not the person. I can't do this for ANY preacher out there. My sin my faults my doctrines I believe are no better. Oh the moment I start pointing fingers talking about HIS kids when they are not here.. I will get my Fathers attention big time! I will be judged on how I am judging His kids. Some of you have no clue what your doing.

 

[Niki7]

Since you asked. Hopefully this will eliminate assumptions. Opinions do not matter. The only thing that matters is do what we say match scripture.

My Armor of God 11 part series
https://1drv.ms/w/s!AvrBAxgnP5rPowJk71cWw2_L0FZx

My Critique of a Deliverance minister
https://1drv.ms/w/s!AvrBAxgnP5rPq1Q0sDoJsjd4Aoea

I do not consider you to be a teacher. Interesting you do not actually wish to discuss but point me to something you have written.

 

[Niki7]

Again, this does nothing to disprove the reach of false doctrines.

You do not seem able to follow posts with determination to stick to the facts of said posts.

The majority of those who say they believe are not wof or whatever else you have concerned yourself with. I am finding you to be quite
disingenuous.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I do not consider you to be a teacher. Interesting you do not actually wish to discuss but point me to something you have written.

It doesn't matter how you see me. You wanted my belief on the matter so I shared it by what I have written. More so for the reader because I know you have no interest.

 

[Niki7]

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/essay/demon-possession/

I believe the best evidence is in context. You have no evidence of a Christian in scripture needing an exorcism. It was always either a Jew or unsaved Gentile.

We are also told in scripture those who are of the world are children of Satan. Making them ripe for possession as Judah found out at the Last Supper when Satan took ahold of him.

Possession is also understood by Biblical context not modern movies. Biblical context provides the image not as a puppet although some instances like Matt 8:28 show that but in others like the the dumb and deaf son the demon had possession over his speech and hearing. and Mark 9:17 says, “wherever it seizes him”. Which implies the demon could possess as it wills, when it wills.

But of course, in context when Jesus healed not every illness was demonic.

But again, there is no scripture evidence or even commands for a Christian to be delivered from demonic possession. Spiritual warfare for the Christian is spoken of but not exorcisms (for the Christian).

We are not possessed by anything but the Holy Spirit. We may be harmed by sinful choices. Natural illnesses or even God can allow illness through the demonic as seen in Paul's thorn in the flesh. But notice that was given by God and nothing Paul could do to take it away.

This is confusion. I shall leave you to it and as another poster said 'I am casting pearls' meaning towards you. I prefer not to use that expression towards another believer as the 2nd part of that verse would mean you are a pig and that is why I do not use that expression but I certainly understand the sentiment behind it and why someone might say it.

I will leave that judgement to God who is impartial.

I am also leaving you to your own beliefs. You have made your choice and apart from actually needing God to insert Himself into your own doctrine, I do not think you will receive the truth we, myself and others, have directed to you.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

You do not seem able to follow posts with determination to stick to the facts of said posts.

The majority of those who say they believe are not wof or whatever else you have concerned yourself with. I am finding you to be quite
disingenuous.

Never said the majority. I spoke of a movement. Stop the fallacies of logic. Straw men are easy to blow down if you set them up.

 

[Niki7]

Your casting pearls..
"If you say that someone is casting pearls before swine, you mean that they are wasting their time by offering something that is helpful or valuable to someone who does not appreciate or understand it.cast pearls"

Its trying to talk about the spiritual but it keeps going back to the natural. You said "does research" that is not what this is about. Would seem never is. Like they say the sun is yellow. You tell them no its white if you go above the earth you see the sun white. Later you read more posts by them "the sun is yellow".

This name it claim it, did the op say sorry didn't search got it wrong? Did anyone that say this about them say oops I was wrong? In his own Church on video more then once "we got it wrong we repented". What I left out is he never really said it like that in the past but took all the blame today. Like Hagin who never said name it claim it but all his life in book video (I just watched it again) "you have to make sure what your asking for, praying for is in the word of God" Backed up by scripture. I am no one I searched. Like caught up Rapture no matter what you say it falls on deaf ears and all you keep reading is "1830". I have the world of info in front of me. I read saw the scrolls by a hymn writer 300-400ad then other times I quoted many during the 100+ AD that talked about it also. Then what do you read? "Rapture started in 1830". Oh praise GOD.

So this was never in my eyes about "my words have the same power of God". Where is that written? Oh be so wonderful to chat debate the scripture not the person. I can't do this for ANY preacher out there. My sin my faults my doctrines I believe are no better. Oh the moment I start pointing fingers talking about HIS kids when they are not here.. I will get my Fathers attention big time! I will be judged on how I am judging His kids. Some of you have no clue what your doing.

ok

 

[Roughsoul1991]

This is confusion. I shall leave you to it and as another poster said 'I am casting pearls' meaning towards you. I prefer not to use that expression towards another believer as the 2nd part of that verse would mean you are a pig and that is why I do not use that expression but I certainly understand the sentiment behind it and why someone might say it.

I will leave that judgement to God who is impartial.

I am also leaving you to your own beliefs. You have made your choice and apart from actually needing God to insert Himself into your own doctrine, I do not think you will receive the truth we, myself and others, have directed to you.

As I said the facts will speak for themselves. Thank you.

 

[Lanolin]

Gods words dont return back empty eg scripture

Our own words though dont have power.

When you speak what the Holy spirit wants you to say it may come out in an unknown tongue though its for the benefit of someone else who may know that tongue, or God who knows all tongues.

The bible does say life and death is in the power of the tongue i.e you may use your tongue to either curse or bless. God wants us to bless. Your blessing can be powerful to someone, just as your curses can be destructive, especially to a child. Thats why expletivex used to be bleeped out on tv and no teacher would ever cuss or swear in class in front of children.

I think the word of faith hijacked these ideas for selfish ends, like a lot of people pray just for themselves that they be rich or something and then get disappointed when it doesnt happen just because they say it.