Do The Saints In Revelation 13:7, Represent The Church Being Overcome-Killed By The Beast?

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Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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Many falsely teach the saints seen in Revelation 13:7 represents the Church, suggesting that (The Beast) will kill all Christians?

The saints on earth in Revelation 13:7 are the (Two Witnesses) seen in Revelation 11:7 below.

When the (Two Witnesses) finish their testimony after 1260 days, they will be overcome and killed by (The Beast) Gods Divine plan.

The saints seen in Revelation 13:7 dosen't represent the Church on earth, as many falsely teach in error, this represents the (Two Witnesses)

Revelation 13:7KJV
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 11:7KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
 
The answer to the title of this thread is no. The three most prevalent Theories regarding the subject is as most are familiar with are
1) Pre trib
2) Mid trib
3) Post trib
​
I used to work at School of Theology. I have heard Scholars, Pastors, Evangelist's, Professors, Authors, Professors and students postulating all sorts of theories, Charts, maps time tables and on and so forth. The sharpest of them all and my Professor Dr. Walter Martin, aka "The Bible Answerman". Host of a National radio call in question and answer program. He humbly admitted that he wasn't Shure and couldn't figure it out. That's quite rare considering his education credentials and Ministry, (cult rescue and apologetics) So If you think you've got it figure out have at it. It should be more edifying than politics.
 
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How do you explain,

Matthew 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord (...)

or:

2 Corinthians 4:11
For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.
 
The answer to the title of this thread is no. The three most prevalent Theories regarding the subject is as most are familiar with are
1) Pre trib
2) Mid trib
3) Post trib
​
I used to work at School of Theology. I have heard Scholars, Pastors, Evangelist's, Professors, Authors, Professors and students postulating all sorts of theories, Charts, maps time tables and on and so forth. The sharpest of them all and my Professor Dr. Walter Martin, aka "The Bible Answerman". Host of a National radio call in question and answer program. He humbly admitted that he wasn't Shure and couldn't figure it out. That's quite rare considering his education credentials and Ministry, (cult rescue and apologetics) So If you think you've got it figure out have at it. It should be more edifying than politics.
Thanks for the response, I believe scripture clearly teaches the Saints in Rev 13:7 represent the Two Witnesses seen in Rev 11:7

The claim of the Saints representing the Church has been promoted by dispensationalism, in fear and propaganda, Sci-Fi left behind Tim Lahaye, antichrist death squads hunting down Christian's in every part of the world.
 
How do you explain,

Matthew 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord (...)

or:

2 Corinthians 4:11
For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.
I dont understand your concern?

Do I believe absolutely no believers will be persecuted or martyred, (No)
Christian's are killed presently for testimony and faith

The post was directed to the many false teachings that suggest all the saints will be killed upon earth
 
Thanks for the response, I believe scripture clearly teaches the Saints in Rev 13:7 represent the Two Witnesses seen in Rev 11:7

The claim of the Saints representing the Church has been promoted by dispensationalism, in fear and propaganda, Sci-Fi left behind Tim Lahaye, antichrist death squads hunting down Christian's in every part of the world.
I know, I've seen them. The common teaching at the time was the Great commission and evangelism is a Christians highest calling. The place where I worked gave college credits for witnessing in the streets. And the movies like you mentioned were usually followed by an alter to come and get saved. This is the second time you've brought this up today.

Now I'm getting curious. your writings read like you are an articulate person. So please take the opportunity to make your case. We are here for you.
 
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We were also taught that in the end times that there a massive outpouring of the Holy Spirit and a great revival such as the world has never seen.

Following that would come the Rapture. Death plague and destruction would engulf the world. The Antichrist and Beast would then force everybody to accept the mark or die.

Then The Lord, the Angels and the Saints (us), would return and slay everyone left and they would burn in the lake of fire forever. Is that about about right? Is that what you wanted down grade and or rebut?
 
Many falsely teach the saints seen in Revelation 13:7 represents the Church, suggesting that (The Beast) will kill all Christians?

The saints on earth in Revelation 13:7 are the (Two Witnesses) seen in Revelation 11:7 below.

When the (Two Witnesses) finish their testimony after 1260 days, they will be overcome and killed by (The Beast) Gods Divine plan.

The saints seen in Revelation 13:7 dosen't represent the Church on earth, as many falsely teach in error, this represents the (Two Witnesses)

Revelation 13:7KJV
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 11:7KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

At first, your argument seems to have merit. But on further examination it becomes doubtful. Turning to Chapter 12 of Apocalypse we are given a "sign" (Rev.12:1 - the word "wonder" in the KJV is strictly " a sign"). This "sign" is a woman in heaven, and she is a MOTHER. She has THREE SEEDS; (i) A Man-child who is birn on earth and is Raptured to the throne. (ii) those who "have the testimony of Jesus Christ" - which could only be Christians, and (iii) those who "keep the commandments of God" (not Christ). Now, whoever the Woman is, and whoever the Man-Child is, is not part of this rebuttal. Much more, we want to establish who the other Two Seeds are. The reason for this is that outside of the word "saints" in Revelation 13:7, which is under dispute here, the word "saints" in the whole rest of the Bible, mean God's people.

As already mentioned, the Woman of Revelation 12 - a sign and a Mother - has seed that will rule the earth with a rod of iron. He is raptured and avoids the wrath of the Dragon who wants to devour him. The other TWO SEEDS are called, by the Holy Spirit, "the REMNANT", or "the REMAINDER" of her seed. I propose that the only people on earth who "have the testimony of Jesus Christ" is the Church. The Jew hates and curses Christ, and the Nations are indifferent to Jesus Christ. If so, then they form a company of men and women who were called THE CHURCH. Their fate during the 1260 days of the Great Tribulation, the same 42 months that the Beast reigns, is to flee to a wilderness. Now, a man, or men, cannot flee if they are dead.

So in Chapter 11 of Revelation, we have just TWO men who live in Jerusalem for the 1260 days, not the wilderness, and they are overcome and killed by the Beast. In Chapter 12 we have a company of men who have the testimony of Jesus Christ who are NOT killed - but flee. And in Chapter 13:7 we have an unspecified number of "saints" who are overcome but not killed. In fact, the following verses indicate that if they resisted with swords, they would die by the sword. Now, in Revelation 7 verse 9 onward, we have a"great multitude of men from every nation" who are connected to Christ, His throne and His blood, but passed through the Great Tribulation. And in verses 16-17, it says that; "They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."

Now, the hardships in verses 16-17 are those encountered in a wilderness! Hunger, thirst, blasting sun and heat with sorrow and pain that produces "tears". Added to this, if the came out of the Great Tribulation it means that they SURVIVED it, like those of Chapter 12.

I propose that the REMNANT of the Church is overcome by the Beast, not killed, are driven to a wilderness and survive the Great Tribulation. Whereas, the Two Witnesses, overcome their enemies for the duration of the 1260 days, do NOT flee, testify in Jerusalem, NOT the wilderness, and are killed at the end of the 1260 days. IT IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY THAT THE SAINTS OF REVELATION 13.7 ARE THE TWO WITNESSES OF REVELATION 11.
 
The church will never be overcome.

Our Lord Jesus judges seven Churches. In five he makes serious accusations and calls for "Overcomers". In the remaining two he calls to them that they MAINTAIN their overcoming. That is, 70% of Churches were apostate and 100% needed to Overcome. I dare say that a fat majority of the Church will be overcome. But Revelation 13:7 does not "dare" to. It says it straight out that the Beast will overcome them. You can argue that the Church is not mentioned, and I will agree, but if the Bible consistently calls the memebrs of the Church "saints", and then says the saints (without exception) are Overcome, that is an established fact. Revelation 13:4;

"And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"