Do we Believe Jesus and/or Obey Jesus?

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Do we Believe Jesus and/or Obey Jesus?

  • We only have to believe Yahshua/Jesus and not obey Him and we will enter the kingdom

    Votes: 2 14.3%
  • We have to believe and obey Yahshua/Jesus to enter the kingdom

    Votes: 12 85.7%

  • Total voters
    14
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes... I know what links are and how to use them.. :)

On the page you linked to, the only Bible version that uses the phrase "to share in the Lord's Supper" is the New Living Translation, which is not a translation, but a paraphrase. The words "to share in the Lord's Supper" are not in the texts.

Also, I see that the "Aramaic Bible in Plain English" has "we assembled to break the Eucharist". I bet you love that one... :)

Wow a catholic used an NLT, amazing.
 
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Virtually ALL blue letters in my posts on this forum are HYPERLINKS to my sources, so simply CLICK on my link(s) which you will discover by hovering your mouse over any blue letters, and open that link "in a new tab" (or new window)! Then search THAT PAGE for any keyword you are trying to find, which will generally zoom to whatever bible version(s) that word appeared in, in that particular verse! It kind of like "self-service" made easy!

The 5 MINUTE LIMIT FIASCO for corrections and/or additions on this website continues to be a huge stumbling block!


Pulpit Commentary
Verse 7. - We were gathered for the disciples came, A.V. and T.R.; discoursed with for preached unto, A.V.; intending for ready, A.V.; prolongedfor continued, A.V. The first day of the week. This is an important evidence of the keeping of the Lord's day by the Church as a day for their Church assemblies (see Luke 24:1, 30, 35; John 20:19, 26; 1 Corinthians 16:2). To break bread. This is also an important example of weekly communion as the practice of the first Christians. Comparing the phrase, "to break bread," with St. Luke's account of the institution of the Holy Eucharist (Luke 22:19) and the passages just quoted in Luke 24, and St. Paul's language (1 Corinthians 10:16; 1 Corinthians 11:24), it is impossible not to conclude that the breaking of bread in the celebration of the Lord's Supper is an essential part of the holy sacrament, which man may not for any specious reasons omit. Further, this passage seems to indicate that evening Communion, after the example of the first Lord's Supper, was at this time the practice of the Church. It was preceded (see ver. 11) by the preaching of the Word.
 
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shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
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The 5 MINUTE LIMIT FIASCO for corrections and/or additions on this website continues to be a huge stumbling block!


Pulpit Commentary
Verse 7. - We were gathered for the disciples came, A.V. and T.R.; discoursed with for preached unto, A.V.; intending for ready, A.V.; prolongedfor continued, A.V. The first day of the week. This is an important evidence of the keeping of the Lord's day by the Church as a day for their Church assemblies (see Luke 24:1, 30, 35; John 20:19, 26; 1 Corinthians 16:2). To break bread. This is also an important example of weekly communion as the practice of the first Christians. Comparing the phrase, "to break bread," with St. Luke's account of the institution of the Holy Eucharist (Luke 22:19) and the passages just quoted in Luke 24, and St. Paul's language (1 Corinthians 10:16; 1 Corinthians 11:24), it is impossible not to conclude that the breaking of bread in the celebration of the Lord's Supper is an essential part of the holy sacrament, which man may not for any specious reasons omit. Further, this passage seems to indicate that evening Communion, after the example of the first Lord's Supper, was at this time the practice of the Church. It was preceded (see ver. 11) by the preaching of the Word.
Do you understand that it's possible to find commentary supporting almost any belief that anyone ever had?
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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I never hinted at earning brownie points by guarding the Sabbath, I actually, while not perfect, I think the Sabbath is beneficial to me as it gives me a focus to ignore the rest of the distractions and look to Him, during the week, while at work, etc. one can not focus like this, not that work is wrong but noone can focus on Him while working. Unless we change the meaningof the word of focus. To sum it up, the Sabbath is a blessing to me IMO and I don't and never did claim to be righteous because I seek top guard it. Honestly why would that even be a topic to say to me, as what did I say that warranted that or implied that? Also I would like to ask you what benefit if any you thuink it has for you?
When Jesus said: Mt 11:28-30
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
KJV;
I believe He was speaking of the difference between trying to please God through my own efforts under Law, and accepting the restored relationship with God He made (would make) possible on the cross. When I observe the Sabbath i celebrate the rest from the Law that accompanies His Salvation.
 
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I would suggest you stay away from the NLT,

Why would that be ... because you think it's the ONLY bible version that has been "corrupted?"


1 John 5:7 Multilingual: For there are three that testify:

New International Version
For there are three that testify:

New Living Translation
So we have these three witnesses--

English Standard Version
For there are three that testify:

New American Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:

King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:

International Standard Version
For there are three witnesses —

NET Bible
For there are three that testify,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And The Spirit testifies because The Spirit is the truth.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
There are three witnesses:

Jubilee Bible 2000
For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

King James 2000 Bible
For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.

American King James Version
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

American Standard Version
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

Darby Bible Translation
For they that bear witness are three:

English Revised Version
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

Webster's Bible Translation
For there are three that bear testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.

Weymouth New Testament
For there are three that give testimony-- the Spirit, the water, and the blood;

World English Bible
For there are three who testify:

Young's Literal Translation
because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these -- the three -- are one;
 
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Do you understand that it's possible to find commentary supporting almost any belief that anyone ever had?

No, I do NOT! Please point out any BIBLE commentary that supports Charles Darwin's "Theory of Evolution!"
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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Would it be too much to ask, that you submit SCRIPTURAL PROOF(S) of would have presented as conjecture? There are other scriptures which tend to negate your claim!


John 6:55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. ... because
My flesh is real food and My blood is real drink. ...[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Do you actually KNOW the difference between REAL and FIGURATIVE?
Jn 6:48-64
48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
KJV

These words: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life give us a clue that there is a symbolism or metaphor here; but the true meaning is explained elsewhere.

Mt 26:26-28
26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
KJV

1 Co 11:23-27
23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
KJV

In these two passages the metaphor is made clear.

Nu 28:1-8
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Command the children of Israel, and say unto them, My offering, and my bread for my sacrifices made by fire, for a sweet savour unto me, shall ye observe to offer unto me in their due season.
3 And thou shalt say unto them, This is the offering made by fire which ye shall offer unto the Lord; two lambs of the first year without spot day by day, for a continual burnt offering.
4 The one lamb shalt thou offer in the morning, and the other lamb shalt thou offer at even;
5 And a tenth part of an ephah of flour for a meat offering, mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil.
6 It is a continual burnt offering, which was ordained in mount Sinai for a sweet savour, a sacrifice made by fire unto the Lord.
7 And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the Lord for a drink offering.
8 And the other lamb shalt thou offer at even: as the meat offering of the morning, and as the drink offering thereof, thou shalt offer it, a sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord.
KJV


In Chapter 28 of Numbers, we see that EVERY animal sacrifice was to be accompanied by a meal offering of a specific quantity of unleavened bread and a drink offering of a specific quantity of wine.

This meal (meat) offering and drink offering was called the Kiddush (sanctification). Its purpose was to take something of the world (the animal being sacrificed) and make it suitable for God's use.

Mt 26:26-28 and 1 Co 11:23-27 explain that the kiddush used to sanctify every offering was representative of Jesus' body and blood.

During the Babylonian captivity, when animal sacrifice temporarily ceased, The kiddush was used in the Synagogues to sanctify the Sabbath worship which was the only sacrifice available to offer.

When the Lord said:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

Jesus knew precisely how often it was done. It was done every time a Jewish congregation met in the Synagogue for observance of a Sabbath or one of the Appointed Times of Lev 23; and every time an animal was sacrificed. Jesus intent was to give an old ceremony new meaning.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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This was a wonderful post, I want to comment on one thing, and I say this in support not in any other way.

Jesus intent was to give an old ceremony new meaning.
I think it more accurate to say, He showed an old ceremonies true meaning/intent. For Yah knowing the end from the beginning knew these things had a purpose, and Yahshua showed this purpose.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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When Jesus said: Mt 11:28-30
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
KJV;
I believe He was speaking of the difference between trying to please God through my own efforts under Law, and accepting the restored relationship with God He made (would make) possible on the cross. When I observe the Sabbath i celebrate the rest from the Law that accompanies His Salvation.
So you don't think He was talking about this:

Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"



2 Thessalonians 1:5-10, “Clear evidence of the righteous judgment of יהוה, in order for you to be counted worthy of the reign of יהוה, for which you also suffer, since יהוה shall rightly repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give you who are afflictedrest with us when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know יהוה, and on those who do not obey the Good News of our Master יהושע Messiah, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Master and from the esteem of His strength, when He comes to be esteemed in His set-apart ones and to be admired among all those who believe in that Day, because our witness to you was believed.”
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
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So you don't think He was talking about this:

Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"



2 Thessalonians 1:5-10, “Clear evidence of the righteous judgment of יהוה, in order for you to be counted worthy of the reign of יהוה, for which you also suffer, since יהוה shall rightly repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give you who are afflictedrest with us when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know יהוה, and on those who do not obey the Good News of our Master יהושע Messiah, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Master and from the esteem of His strength, when He comes to be esteemed in His set-apart ones and to be admired among all those who believe in that Day, because our witness to you was believed.”
No, I don't; but I understand how you might think so.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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No, I don't; but I understand how you might think so.
So do you have Scriptural evidence that Jesus is giving His followers a rest from His Father's Law?

and how would you reconcile those verses I posted?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Mat 11:27-30, "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father. And no one fully knows the Son except the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father, except the Son and those whom YHWH wills the Son to reveal. Come to Me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light"

Yahshua is quoting Jer 6:16, “Thus said יהוה, “Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; and find rest for yourselves.”

Yahshua offers this rest spoken of:
Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"

Look what the next verse says:

Jer 6:17, "But they said,
We do not walk in it.’ “And I raised up watchmen over you, and said, ‘Listen to a voice of the trumpet!’ But they said, ‘We do not listen.’"

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 12:50, “For whoever does the desire of My Father who is in the heavens is My brother and sister and mother.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 6:46, “But why do you call Me ‘Master, Master,’ and do not do what I say?”[/FONT]

Jeremiah 6:9-17, “Thus said יהוה of hosts, “Let them thoroughly glean as a vine the remnant of Yisra’yl; pass your hand again over the branches like a grape-gatherer. To whom shall I speak and give warning, so that they hear? See, their ear is uncircumcised, and they are unable to listen. See, the word of יהוה is a reproach to them, they do not delight in it. Therefore I am filled with the wrath of יהוה. I have become weary of containing it. Pour it out on the children outside, and on the company of young men together, for even husband and wife shall be taken, the aged and the very old. And their houses shall be turned over to others, fields and wives together. For I shall stretch out My hand against the inhabitants of the land,” declares יהוה, “For from the least of them even to the greatest of them, they are all greedy for gain. And from the prophet even to the priest, all act falsely. And they heal the breach of My people slightly, saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ when there is no peace. Were they ashamed when they had done abomination? No! They were not at all ashamed, nor did they know how to blush. Therefore they shall fall among those who fall. They shall stumble at the time I visit them,” said יהוה, “Thus said
יהוה, “Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; and find rest for yourselves.” But they said, We do not walk in it.’ “And I raised up watchmen over you, and said, ‘Listen to a voice of the trumpet!’ But they said, ‘We do not listen.’

2 Thessalonians 1:5-10, “Clear evidence of the righteous judgment of יהוה, in order for you to be counted worthy of the reign of יהוה, for which you also suffer, since יהוה shall rightly repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give you who are afflictedrest with us when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know יהוה, and on those who do not obey the Good News of our Master יהושע Messiah, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Master and from the esteem of His strength, when He comes to be esteemed in His set-apart ones and to be admired among all those who believe in that Day, because our witness to you was believed.”

 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
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So do you have Scriptural evidence that Jesus is giving His followers a rest from His Father's Law?

and how would you reconcile those verses I posted?
You asked me what my Sabbath observance means to me and I answered your question. I haven't attempted to reconcile the verses you posted because it never occurred to me (even after you posted them) that they were relevant to the verse I cited.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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You asked me what my Sabbath observance means to me and I answered your question. I haven't attempted to reconcile the verses you posted because it never occurred to me (even after you posted them) that they were relevant to the verse I cited.
Fair enough, I've never read any Scripture that made me think the Sabbath is a rest from His Law, but rather a day set aside for His will, but to each their own. Also by reconcile I meant what do those verses mean to you.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Would it be too much to ask, that you submit SCRIPTURAL PROOF(S) of would have presented as conjecture? There are other scriptures which tend to negate your claim!

John 6:55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. ... because
My flesh is real food and My blood is real drink. ...[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Do you actually KNOW the difference between REAL and FIGURATIVE?
Just for CatholicsANSWERS | HOME

Eating Jesus' Flesh

Question: In the Gospel of John, chapter 6, Jesus affirms that his flesh is real food and his blood is real drink. The apostles understood this as being the literal body and blood of Christ in the Eucharist. The Eucharist is the true body and blood of Christ.

Answer: Jesus insisted that, in order to have eternal life, it is absolutely necessary to eat His flesh and drink His blood. "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you" (6:53). He stressed that His flesh is food indeed and His blood is drink indeed. There is no question about the need of “feeding” on Him for eternal life; the only question is about the manner of doing so.

It is certainly not by eating Jesus’ body with the mouth and teeth as the Jews wrongly understood. Both Catholics and Protestants reject the revolting idea of cannibalism. Moreover, the Scriptures forbid drinking of blood (Leviticus 17:14; Deuteronomy 12:16,23; Acts 21:25); certainly the Lord would never contradict the precepts of the Law.

How then may we eat and drink? Could Christ be referring to the Eucharist, and in particular to the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation? Is the body and blood of Christ received under the appearance of bread and wine? Though this explanation is almost natural to the Catholic mind, I simply want to point out that this idea is extraneous and foreign in this context. The discourse is not about the Eucharist as we shall prove; in fact the apostle John does not even include an account of the Lord’s Supper in his gospel record.

Moreover, “real food” and “real drink” do not refer to the Eucharistic elements. Jesus did not say, “The bread is real flesh and the wine is real blood” as many Catholics seem to misread His words. He speaks of Himself, His flesh and blood, as real food and drink.

Let us take a closer look at the context to discover the meaning of eating and drinking, and the sense in which Jesus is “real” food for our souls.

After Jesus had miraculously fed five thousand men, the Jews attempted to forcefully make Him king but He escaped to a solitary place. They continued seeking until they found Him the following day. Sadly, their motives were wrong. Knowing their heart, the Lord rebukes them: “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate the loaves and were filled” (6:26). They wanted to crown Him king to secure their physical well-being. They were ignorant of Jesus’ spiritual mission and that He came to give them something much better.

So Jesus told them to sort out their priorities: “Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him” (6:27). They should have eagerly sought after eternal life rather than worry about their bodily needs. Moreover He presented Himself as the One who could give them that life. As evidence, Jesus appealed to God who had “set His seal on Him” by the multitude of miracles He performed.

At this point the Jews asked Jesus what God wanted them to do. Jesus answered plainly that God wanted them to believe that He was the Messiah. “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent” (6:29). This is the key thought in John chapter six: Jesus is the Messiah sent by God from Heaven, and He came to give us eternal life.

Sadly, the Jews were unwilling to receive Him. They challenged Him, “What sign will you perform then, that we may see and believe You?” (6:30). Their stomachs must have been still full of the miraculous bread He had fed them hours before, and yet here they are asking for a sign! Such is the hardness of the human heart. Their question makes two things clear: They understood that Jesus was demanding faith in Him; and secondly, they did not accept His claim to be the Messiah.

The Jews were still preoccupied about physical needs; they would not be persuaded unless Jesus provided them with food just as Moses gave their forefathers manna in the desert for a period of forty years. In His response, Jesus presents Himself as the fulfillment of the manna, “Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but my Father give you the true bread from heaven” (6:32). Jesus is the bread that is much better than manna or any physical food which can only sustain physical life for a short time. He gives eternal life. “He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and He who believes in Me shall never thirst...Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life” (6:35, 47). Jesus reminded them that those who ate manna eventually died; He promised that those who eat of the living bread of heaven would live forever. It is in this sense Jesus’ flesh is real food and His blood real drink. He is real food because He gives eternal life. “This is the bread which came down from heaven – not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will life forever” (6:58).

During the conversation, our Lord made it abundantly clear how a person could eat the heavenly bread and have eternal life. From the very beginning Jesus told the Jews that God required them to believe in Him as the God-sent Messiah (6:29). He repeatedly states that those who believe in Him have eternal life (6:35, 40, 47). Sadly, the Jews would not believe in Him. In the face of their obstinate unbelief, Jesus reaffirmed the same truths by graphic and emphatic language, speaking of eating His flesh and drinking His blood to have eternal life (6:53-58)

There is no reason why we should interpret eating and drinking in a different way from Jesus’ earlier explanation. We must participate in the merits of His bodily sacrifice and the blood shed on the cross by believing in Him. That is the only way we can feed and be satisfied with life eternal.

Finally, the Bible also tells us how the apostles understood Jesus’ words. When Jesus asked the apostles whether they wanted to leave Him too, the apostle Peter answered on behalf of the group: “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Messiah, the Son of the Living God” (6:68). They had no thought about the Eucharist, much less that the bread and wine are changed into the flesh and blood of Christ. They had understood well what Jesus meant all the way. He was claiming to be the Messiah; and they confessed their faith in Him. They ate and drank by believing, and Christ gave them eternal life.

Did you eat Jesus’ flesh? Did you drink His blood? Did you feed on Him? In other words, do you genuinely believe in Jesus, the Divine Messiah? If so, you possess eternal life; if not, you’re still dead in your sins and unbelief. - Eating Jesus' Flesh
 
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That shoud say "before dawn" on the 1st day/Sunday.

As you can see from the Scriptures quoted Christ had left the tomb before "early dawn" (presumably 4 - 6 am). But since the Hebrew first day of the week had already begun the previous evening after sunset, Christ arose anywhere between 6:00 p.m. Saturday evening and 6:00 a.m. Sunday morning. Thus this is indeed "the Lord's Day" and there is no escaping its significance. So to be meticulous about the matter, people who wish to observe the 7th day must also observe the 8th day.
Mat 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day(added word) of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
How is it the end of the sabbath AND it is beginning to dawn?
Mat 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
the great earthquake is from the angel of the Lord descending from heaven. Then it says he came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. It does not say and he rolled the stone and Jesus was resurrected.
Mat 28:6 He is not here: for(G1063 - because) he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

Fact: This does not give us a timeline for when Christ was actually awakened, but when the angel appeared and the two ladies came to the tomb.

So I must first understand why the verse says it is at the end of sabbath and beginning to dawn at the same time. That does not match the Jewish day, that doesn't even match what are calendar is to day.

(LITV) Mat 28:1 But late in the sabbaths, at the dawning into the first of the sabbaths, Mary the Magdalene and the other Mary came to gaze upon the grave.

I don't understand all the feast and their sabbaths. But I do know that there is counting of sabbaths until First Fruits/Pentecost. Could it be possible that this is counting sabbaths, being that the word "week" is translated from the same Greek word that translates "Sabbath". And it was referring to that first sabbath of the count down?

Hizikyah, please feel free to respond to my questions. I love how you and a few others here always show Bible scriptures and other sources for what you all are talking about.
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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Mat 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day(added word) of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
How is it the end of the sabbath AND it is beginning to dawn?
Mat 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
the great earthquake is from the angel of the Lord descending from heaven. Then it says he came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. It does not say and he rolled the stone and Jesus was resurrected.
Mat 28:6 He is not here: for(G1063 - because) he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

Fact: This does not give us a timeline for when Christ was actually awakened, but when the angel appeared and the two ladies came to the tomb.
This is true if we only look at the resurrections verses themselves as By all 4 accounts He had already Resurrected before the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] day/ Sunday;

Matthew 28:1-6, "”But late in the sabbath, as it was dawning into day one of the week, Miryam from Maḡdala and the other Miryam came to see the tomb. And see, there was a great earthquake, for a messenger of יהוה came down out of heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it. And his appearance was like lightning, and his garments as white as snow. And the guards trembled for fear of him, and became like dead men. And the messenger responding, said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek יהושע who was impaled. He is not here, for He was raised, as He said. Come, see the place where the Master lay.”

it was dawning into day one of the week”...“He is not here, for He was raised

Mark 16:1-6, “And when the Sabbath was past, Miryam from Maḡdala, and Miryam the mother of Ya‛aqoḇ, and Shelomah bought spices, to go and anoint Him. And very early on day one of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. And they said among themselves, “Who shall roll away the stone from the entrance of the tomb for us?” And looking up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away, for it was extremely large. And having entered into the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right, wearing a white robe, and they were greatly astonished. And he said to them, “Do not be much astonished. You seek יהושע of Natsareth, who was impaled. He was raised – He is not here! See the place where they laid Him.”

very early on day one of the week”...“He was raised – He is not here

Luke 24:1-3, “But on day one of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. And having entered, they did not find the body of the Master יהושע.”

on day one of the week, at early dawn”...“they did not find the body of the Master יהושע

John 20:1, “And on the first day of the week Miryam from Maḡdala came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been removed from the tomb.”

on the first day of the week”...“the stone had been removed from the tomb

However if we take evry bit of evidence into account I believe there is a clear timeline.

So I must first understand why the verse says it is at the end of sabbath and beginning to dawn at the same time. That does not match the Jewish day, that doesn't even match what are calendar is to day.
Here you will see the breakdown of what a day is according to YHWH (the Creator of all that is, including the day). It takes some getting used to but the days start and end at sundown. Not a roman day, or a jewish day but YHWH's day. Example;

Day.jpg

Berĕshith/Genesis 1:5, “And Yah called the light ‘day’ and the darkness He called ‘night.’ And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, the first day.”


Leviticus 23:32, “It is a Sabbath of rest to you, and you shall afflict your beings. On the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you observe your Sabbath.”


"evening" is word # H6153. ereb - Strong's Concordance: ereb: evening, Original Word: עָ֫רֶב, Part of Speech: Noun Masculine, Transliteration: ereb, Phonetic Spelling: (eh'-reb), Short Definition: evening


Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) 1) evening, night, sunset, 1a) evening, sunset, 1b) night

(LITV) Mat 28:1 But late in the sabbaths, at the dawning into the first of the sabbaths, Mary the Magdalene and the other Mary came to gaze upon the grave.

I don't understand all the feast and their sabbaths. But I do know that there is counting of sabbaths until First Fruits/Pentecost. Could it be possible that this is counting sabbaths, being that the word "week" is translated from the same Greek word that translates "Sabbath". And it was referring to that first sabbath of the count down?
Nice observation about the word week/Sabbath. That is another study in itself so I would like to keep it simnple for now.

Basically Yah made the 7th day Sabbath and 7 Feast Days or High Sabbaths/Moadim. We can see the difference, and that the Feast Day/High Sabbath being spoken of was passover, this falls on the 14 day of the first rmnewed moon of the year. (around the end of march/beginning of April and on any day of the week, because it is not dictated by a day of the week but rather the 14th iof the 1st moon.)

Mattithyah12:40, “For as Yahnah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”

John 19:14-15, “And it was the Preparation Day of the Passover, and about the sixth hour. And he said to the Yehuḏim, “See your Sovereign! But they shouted, “Away, away, impale Him!” Pilate said to them, “Shall I impale your Sovereign?” The chief priests answered, “We have no sovereign except Caesar!”



Here we see “it was the Preparation Day of the Passover” this shows us that it was indeed “the preparation day” for the Passover (High Sabbath) and not “the preparation day” for the weekly Sabbath (7[SUP]th[/SUP] day)

John 19:31, “Therefore, since it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the stake on the Sabbath – for that Sabbath was a high one – the Yehuḏim asked Pilate to have their legs broken, and that they be taken away.”



Here we see the same; “it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the stake on the Sabbath – for that Sabbath was a high one” showing the Messiah was killed on “the preparation day” and the prior verse says it was before the Passover and this verse shows it was before the High Sabbath, meaning the same thing, the Passover.

Luke 23:52-54, "he, going to Pilate, asked for the body of יהושע. Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a tomb that was hewn out of the rock, where no one had ever lain before. That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near."



So by this time Yahshua has been Sacrificed, His body wrapped and taken to the tomb, yet it is still not yet sundown, but “That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near” and remember it is not the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day weekly Sabbath;


John 19:31, “Therefore, since it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the stake on the Sabbath – for that Sabbath was a high one...”


John 19:42, “There, then, because of the Preparation Day of the Yehuḏim, they laid יהושע, because the tomb was near.”


Mat 27:59-66, “And having taken the body, Yosĕph wrapped it in clean linen, and laid it in his new tomb which he had hewn out of the rock. And he rolled a large stone against the door of the tomb, and went away. And Miryam from Maḡdala was there, and the other Miryam, sitting opposite the tomb. On the next day, which was after the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees gathered together to Pilate, saying, “Master, we remember, while He was still alive, how that deceiver said, ‘After three days I am raised. Command, then, that the tomb be safeguarded until the third day, lest His disciples come by night and steal Him away, and should say to the people, ‘He was raised from the dead.’ And the last deception shall be worse than the first. So Pilate said to them, “You have a watch, go, safeguard it as you know how. And they went and safeguarded the tomb, sealing the stone and setting the watch.”


Mat 28:1-15, “1, "But late in the sabbath, as it was dawning into day one of the week, Miryam from Maḡdala and the other Miryam came to see the tomb. 2, "And see, there was a great earthquake, for a messenger of יהוה came down out of heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it. 3, "And his appearance was like lightning, and his garments as white as snow. 28:4, "And the guards trembled for fear of him, and became like dead men. 5, "And the messenger responding, said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek יהושע who was impaled. 6, "“He is not here, for He was raised, as He said. Come, see the place where the Master lay. 7, "“And go quickly, say to His disciples that He was raised from the dead, and see, He is going before you to Galil. There you shall see Him. See, I have told you. 8, "And they left the tomb quickly, with fear and great joy, and ran to report to His disciples. 9, "And as they were going to report to His disciples, see, יהושע met them, saying, “Greetings!” And they came and held Him by the feet and did bow to Him. 10, "Then יהושע said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go, report to My brothers, to go to Galil, and they shall see Me there. 11, "And while they were going, see, some of the guards having gone into the city, reported to the chief priests all that took place. 12, "And when they had come together with the elders and taken counsel, they gave enough silver to the soldiers, 13, "saying, “Say that His disciples came at night and stole Him away while we slept. 14, "“And if this should be reported to the governor, we shall win him over and keep you out of trouble. 15, "And having taken the silver they did as they were instructed. And this account was widely spread among the Yehuḏim, to this day.”


Hizikyah, please feel free to respond to my questions. I love how you and a few others here always show Bible scriptures and other sources for what you all are talking about.
A mostly complete study can be found here, and a few questions people h\ad were answereddd later in the thread, but the 1st 3 posts give the majority of the important topics:

Thread link here:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/159572-when-messiah-put-grave-when-did-he-resurrect.html

3.jpg

If you have any questions feel free to ask, no need to read the entire thread if you on't want to, but there are differeing opinions and it's goo to hear all angles IMO. BUt please at least check out the first 3 posts, it is an important thing in my eyes to know the truth about what the Messiah says is the only true sign. Be well and praiseYah!
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 6:24, “No one is able to serve two masters, for either he shall hate the one and love the other, or else he shall cleave to the one and despise the other. You are not able to serve Yah and mammon.”[/FONT]