Do We Have To Keep The Law?

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Can you give us an example?

The sermon on the mount is full of them

 

[graceNpeace]

And there is a NT scripture saying 'if we break one we break all !...note NT ...present time !

If this is a reference to the Torah then all of us are dead in our sins.
There is no salvation for any of us!
Eternal damnation is all that awaits...

This cannot just be a reference to a convenient subset of the Torah (which you want it to be) - all 613 statutes are in play here...
When last did you sacrifice any animals for your sins?

However, a New covenant believer is NOT subject to the Torah (including the Ten commandments as given to Moses by God).
Nonetheless the New covenant reiterates an ethic where nine of the ten commands from the decalogue find expression in the New covenant - Sabbath observance is NOT found.

 

[Ralph-]

View attachment 181076





That...is...HILARIOUS!

It's hilarious to you because you can only think of the law in terms of absolute perfection for the purpose of justification.

When temptation comes and you resist in the power of the Holy Spirit, that's keeping the law. Your problem is you and most in the church are stuck in Christianity 101. You are incapable of seeing obedience to the commands of God outside of trying to be justified by the law. You instantly think 'absolute perfection from day one until the day I die so I can be justified' when you hear the word 'law'. That's a milk teaching of the Christian faith. You haven't moved on to the meat of the faith--'obedience to the commands of God now that you are justified in Christ'. That's why you don't get this subject.

 

[beta]

so, in other words, grace is not a gift, it has to be earned. o.k. you could not be more wrong ( or delusional ), but you are free to have your opinions.

Afraid you are completely MISunderstanding ! I am not saying to put our own efforts before God but to have HIS good works follow Rev 14v12,13...when we learn to obey and do right they are the result and good works of God's Grace and correction.
what you are giving me is your false opinion and making out it is mine - that is wrong.
There is obviously a difference of opinion between the disobedient and the obedient caused by UNbelief.

 

[razor17]

if you're friend's ox falls in a ditch ...then you best not be a witch.... and try to get rich...but help the ox out of the hole......or else sin at your door does toll.....

if you're bread has leaven....then you ain't going to heaven....

 

[beta]

If this is a reference to the Torah then all of us are dead in our sins.
There is no salvation for any of us!
Eternal damnation is all that awaits...

This cannot just be a reference to a convenient subset of the Torah (which you want it to be) - all 613 statutes are in play here...
When last did you sacrifice any animals for your sins?

However, a New covenant believer is NOT subject to the Torah (including the Ten commandments as given to Moses by God).
Nonetheless the New covenant reiterates an ethic where nine of the ten commands from the decalogue find expression in the New covenant - Sabbath observance is NOT found.

No Sir, I was making Ref to 2Jas 10, 11 which mentions some of the 10 Commands, not any 613.
GOD made a difference in the 10 commandments He spoke personally to the people and those He gave through Moses Deut 5v22 and this is what counts for me...I don't lump them together....because God added no more after giving the 10.
If you want to keep them as one that is your problem.

 

[Ralph-]

The sermon on the mount is full of them

Can you cite some of them for us?

 

[UnderGrace]

The "law" was for men not for God.

Righteousness, love, holiness, justice etc., are inherent attributes of God they are not there by a "law"

You make it sound, if I am reading you correctly, that God abides by a Law and therefore His Holy Spirit is the law keeper inside of us helping us keep the "law"

If this is what you are saying I have not read that in scripture?

It's hilarious to you because you can only think of the law in terms of absolute perfection for the purpose of justification.

When temptation comes and you resist in the power of the Holy Spirit, that's keeping the law. Your problem is you and most in the church are stuck in Christianity 101. You are incapable of seeing obedience to the commands of God outside of trying to be justified by the law. You instantly think 'absolute perfection from day one until the day I die so I can be justified' when you hear the word 'law'. That's a milk teaching of the Christian faith. You haven't moved on to the meat of the faith--'obedience to the commands of God now that you are justified in Christ'. That's why you don't get this subject.

 

[Ralph-]

Righteousness, love, holiness, justice etc., are inherent attributes of God they are not there by a "law"

You make it sound, if I am reading you correctly, that God abides by a Law and therefore His Holy Spirit is the law keeper inside of us helping us keep the "law"

If this is what you are saying I have not read that in scripture?

The qualities of the Spirit are HOW we uphold the commandments of God. That is how Jesus did it, that is how we will do it.

Paul explains that when we are walking in step with the Spirit in accordance with the fruit of the Spirit we are in violation of no command of God:


"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
22the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."-Galatians 5:18,22-23


There is no condemnation of law for people who uphold the law through the qualities of the Holy Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is HOW we 'keep' the law.


"Do we, then, nullify the law (of Moses-see context) by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law (by this faith)."-Romans 3:31

 

[eternally-gratefull]

yes and you follow the law of love by loving other people and not killing them.

You do not understand what I am saying, and your right, But you do not kill a person because you followed the law of moses. but because you loved them (you put their needs above yours).

the ten are enough there is no need to follow all 613 OT laws no one can do it. That's the whole point. but There are still laws that stand the ones God has given will always stand.

The ten are not enough, the 613 are not enough, if you want to not sin by following commands, tyhe amount of commands would be massive.

Jesus showed this on the sermon on the mount, where he said, The law says to not do this (a command) But I tell you that if you do this (not mentioned in the law) your a sinner.

The law is not enough.

i mean if you had a monthly cycle like women do would you want to be outside in a barn for a week no I wouldn't neither would the woman that is a example of loving others as yourself.

What you have to do is figure out what sin is, Do this and you will be able to have victory. If your gonna try to do it by the law. you will utterly fail. because the law is a basic guide to wat some sins are, given to condemn you.

Jesus showed you where and how to have victory, and it was not the law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's what I've been saying. A Christian needs to follow the law:

"you shall love your neighbor as yourself"-Leviticus 19:18


That is what James says to do:


8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”[SUP]a[/SUP] you are doing right."-James 2:8




But you just said a Christian needs to follow the law of love! Now you're saying they can't keep it. And because they can't keep it, they don't have to keep it.

please stop. the law of love is NOT the law of moses. it is HOW you live out th elaw of moses and obey all of Gods other comands not included in the law of moses.

 

[Budman]

It's hilarious to you because you can only think of the law in terms of absolute perfection for the purpose of justification.

When temptation comes and you resist in the power of the Holy Spirit, that's keeping the law. Your problem is you and most in the church are stuck in Christianity 101. You are incapable of seeing obedience to the commands of God outside of trying to be justified by the law. You instantly think 'absolute perfection from day one until the day I die so I can be justified' when you hear the word 'law'. That's a milk teaching of the Christian faith. You haven't moved on to the meat of the faith--'obedience to the commands of God now that you are justified in Christ'. That's why you don't get this subject.

I laughed because of your blatant contradiction.


1. Ralph, what purpose does the Law serve after one is born again?

2. What happens if a Christian does not obey the Law?

3. If you break the entire Law every single day (which we all do - yes, that includes you) how can you claim you "keep" or are "obedient" to the commands?

 

[LPT]

You do not understand what I am saying, and your right, But you do not kill a person because you followed the law of moses. but because you loved them (you put their needs above yours).



The ten are not enough, the 613 are not enough, if you want to not sin by following commands, tyhe amount of commands would be massive.

Jesus showed this on the sermon on the mount, where he said, The law says to not do this (a command) But I tell you that if you do this (not mentioned in the law) your a sinner.

The law is not enough.


What you have to do is figure out what sin is, Do this and you will be able to have victory. If your gonna try to do it by the law. you will utterly fail. because the law is a basic guide to wat some sins are, given to condemn you.

Jesus showed you where and how to have victory, and it was not the law.

IMO the sermon on the mount was not about the Law; it is all about the gospel.

so tell me how does a person put the needs of a abuser/killer/rapist/molester before mine. I like to know how you Love?

what is sin to you? is believing in multible Gods a sin! and if so were can you find that teaching in the bible?

 

[razor17]

if you wear polyester mixed with cotton you are in sin!

 

[blue_ladybug]

That is absolute baloney..

if you wear polyester mixed with cotton you are in sin!

 

[mailmandan]

No Sir, I was making Ref to 2Jas 10, 11 which mentions some of the 10 Commands, not any 613.
GOD made a difference in the 10 commandments He spoke personally to the people and those He gave through Moses Deut 5v22 and this is what counts for me...I don't lump them together....because God added no more after giving the 10.
If you want to keep them as one that is your problem.

Have you perfectly obeyed the 10 Commandments and do you believe that you will qualify for heaven under those terms?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm only talking about the 10 commandments because they are covered by the two commandments that Jesus gave. If we do what he commanded we will be following the commandments.

When Jesus speaks of the law and prophets, he speaks of the whole OT. The term law (torah) was a term used to either mean law of moses. first 5 books or whole OT. (When David says he delights in Gods law, he meant he delights in all of Gods word. Not just mosaic law) so love covers not just the ten, but every one of Gods commands, the ten are just a small sample of possible sins.

I think Paul was talking about circumcision so no that is not covered under the commandments of Jesus and neither is feasts and sacrifices and such.
So no I'm not saying we have to follow the law.

However, the 10 commandments are still included and covered by Jesus' commandments. So we can call them what ever we want (Law or just 10 commandments) but we can't just disregard them. Because if we follow the Commandment to Love God and Love others we will keep them. Now circumcision, feasts, sacrifices all that is done away with it doesn't fit under Jesus' commandments.

Paul was talking about mosaic law in that passage, if your going to follow one your indebted to follow them all. Because in order to fulfill mosaic law. EVERY command had to be kept perfectly. Only christ did this, that why paul called them foolish for trying to be saved in the spirit, but maintain in the flesh (works)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What of the Ten Commandments do people most struggle with or find it impossible to keep?

no one can keep the first.

The rest, I think jesus showed on the sermon on the mount, we may think we keep them, but we probably do not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What does the divine nature do?

Keep the law, of course.

The divine nature within us is how we keep the law. The divine nature does not excuse us from the responsibility to keep the law, as the church has been taught to believe. The divine nature is given to us so we can keep the law.

No, this is not what Jesus said, He said love keeps the law. We can not love perfectly, that is the problem

You people need to learn what real sin is..

 

[Grandpa]

The qualities of the Spirit are HOW we uphold the commandments of God. That is how Jesus did it, that is how we will do it.

Paul explains that when we are walking in step with the Spirit in accordance with the fruit of the Spirit we are in violation of no command of God:


"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
22the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."-Galatians 5:18,22-23


There is no condemnation of law for people who uphold the law through the qualities of the Holy Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is HOW we 'keep' the law.


"Do we, then, nullify the law (of Moses-see context) by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law (by this faith)."-Romans 3:31

Which of those is fruit is 'look to the 10 commandments and obey them in your own understanding and strength'?

Which of those fruit is 'rest only on saturday'?

You can't be simultaneously looking to the 10 commandments to obey them and dead to the law. You get one or you get the other.

Galatians 2:19

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Galatians 3:10

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

You have to choose ONE. If you are going to rely on the Holy Spirit then you can't go back to your work at the law.

And if you are working at the law then you aren't relying on the Holy Spirit. You are either resting from your work at the law or you are working at the law.​

​