Do we know how Yeshua lived his life?

[Rainrider]

Everything Paul had to say, was "in the light of Christ's teachings." That's why he said them.

True yet many wish to use Paul to nullify the teachings of Yeshua, that is why I have left Him out of this thread. Peter warned us of this.
2Pe 3:15 And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him—
2Pe 3:16 speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.

 

[Rainrider]

I've read through the whole thread and I thank you for the effort you put into your study-- some 19 pages worth.

Sadly, you stopped at John 1:14 and skipped on to John 2.

Had you paid attention to John 1:17, you could have saved yourself, and spared everyone else more than a year's worth of posts to wade through.

For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ.

I looked back and your right I did stop at John 1:14 sorry. However I also seen that is where the ones that only wish to be disruptive got going.

 

[Rainrider]

Mat 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
Mat 10:26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.

We are still in debate over the reason for the use of Beelzebub. As we know it is a name that always bring to mind Satan. So we think, it is used to give the idea that not all people are good. The idea that some would call them in a household like this even worst things is a bit shameful. Yet is that not we see many doing to the Jewish people, and other churches that won't bow to them?
Like I said, we have found nothing to show us exactly what is meant by the above as of yet. So it is just us thinking out load.

(Luk 12:3–7 )
Mat 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I was asked many times by the others in our class, "Why do you walk into the lions den so freely?" Truth is, I don't. You see we are not told to take the easy path. We are called to be worriers. Putin on the full armor. Anyone that knows about that, also knows there is nothing to cover your back. As it stands, we work to do HaShems work. We plant the seed and leave it to Him. Fear has nothing to do with it, if we were to fear any man, we would find soon we no longer fear HaShem.
Mat 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
Mat 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
It is getting easier to keep count on mine. LOL
Mat 10:31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

As we know HaShem feeds all of his creation. What we as humans over look is that He meets all the needs of creation, not their wishes. There are many that teach prosperity in this world. Yet the Word is clear, if we store up our treasurer here, our heart becomes bounded to this life. More on that later.

 

[MrE]

I looked back and your right I did stop at John 1:14 sorry. However I also seen that is where the ones that only wish to be disruptive got going.

How about you pick it up right there, and tell us what you think verse 17 is saying, specifically?

 

[Leastofall]

In truth I am not sure it speaks to the church of today at all. Well not all of them any way. I won't call any by name as even the worst church does some good.

As to what the church should learn for the life of Yeshua. We all know that we are to walk as closely to the way Yeshua showed us in His own life, yet oddly, almost every church leader I have asked has no answer. What did I ask? I simply asked the most fundamental question to salvation. How did Yeshua live out His faith?

Yeshua lived out his faith according to scripture. God's word. Loving God above all else. Yeshua said he does nothing but what the father tells him. Out of obedience only to the father. Surrendering his life totally to the will of the father. He was led by the Holy Spirit.
Being fully God yet full man tempted by all things that we are tempted with yet remained sinless.

 

[Rainrider]

How about you pick it up right there, and tell us what you think verse 17 is saying, specifically?

If we are going to back track lets do all what was missed, do to interruptions. After all, there is no reason to crate another reason for interruption now is there?
Jhn 1:15 John testified about him when he shouted to the crowds, “This is the one I was talking about when I said, ‘Someone is coming after me who is far greater than I am, for he existed long before me.’”
Jhn 1:16 From his abundance we have all received one gracious blessing after another.

As we now even Abraham had been show the grace of HaShem, in fact Abraham was called righteous. Gen. 15:6
Jhn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but God’s unfailing love and faithfulness came through Jesus Christ.

For one to think that HaShem didn't give His unfailing love before Yeshua, they need to read the Old Testament more closely. As is found throughout the O.T. HaShem showed His love of his people at every turn. I understand some would love to see me say the law was removed with the Sacrifice of Yeshua, how we know that simply can't be true. After all, if you are reading this thread, you have seen that in Mat. 5:17-18 Yeshua Himself said that isn't why He came.
However to give a more detailed commentary on this passage, so I can move on and not get pulled into an endless debate that ends with the derailment of yet another thread here it goes.
HaShem in an act that shows us His love, gave Yeshua as a sacrifice for all man kind. He could have stopped it at any point, yet because of His love for us He didn't. You see HaShem wanted us to know of His love, and what better way that to send your only Son to die that we may live?
Also please make note that this passage never tells us the Law was removed. Rather it does show that it was through the Law HaShem gave us that He redeemed us.
Jhn 1:18 No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.

Here we find that Yeshua is in fact HaShem. For anyone to say this isn't true would place them at odds with what the Word tells us in many places.

Mat 3:1–12; Mar 1:1–8; Luk 3:1–20 
Jhn 1:19 This was John’s testimony when the Jewish leaders sent priests and Temple assistants from Jerusalem to ask John, “Who are you?”
Jhn 1:20 He came right out and said, “I am not the Messiah.”

Even though John had already given a sound answer they pushed on. This was not show anything, it was to try and trap John into saying anything they could arrest him with.
Jhn 1:21 “Well then, who are you?” they asked. “Are you Elijah?”
“No,” he replied.
“Are you the Prophet we are expecting?”
“No.”
Jhn 1:22 “Then who are you? We need an answer for those who sent us. What do you have to say about yourself?”
Jhn 1:23 John replied in the words of the prophet Isaiah:“I am a voice shouting in the wilderness,
‘Clear the way for the LORD’s coming!

Please note that John is clear that he is fulfilling prophecy.
Jhn 1:24 Then the Pharisees who had been sent
Jhn 1:25 asked him, “If you aren’t the Messiah or Elijah or the Prophet, what right do you have to baptize?”
Jhn 1:26 John told them, “I baptize with water, but right here in the crowd is someone you do not recognize.
Jhn 1:27 Though his ministry follows mine, I’m not even worthy to be his slave and untie the straps of his sandal.”
Jhn 1:28 This encounter took place in Bethany, an area east of the Jordan River, where John was baptizing.

Mat 3:13–17; Mar 1:9–11; Luk 3:21, 22 
Jhn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

As noted before in many threads, For sin to be removed their must first be sin in the world. As made clear in 1John 3:4 sin is a violation of HaShem law.
Jhn 1:30 He is the one I was talking about when I said, ‘A man is coming after me who is far greater than I am, for he existed long before me.’
Jhn 1:31 I did not recognize him as the Messiah, but I have been baptizing with water so that he might be revealed to Israel.”

 

[Rainrider]

Jhn 1:32 Then John testified, “I saw the Holy Spirit descending like a dove from heaven and resting upon him.
Jhn 1:33 I didn’t know he was the one, but when God sent me to baptize with water, he told me, ‘The one on whom you see the Spirit descend and rest is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
It is from this that some teach 2 baptisms. The first in their teaching doesn't fill you with anything, rather it nothing more than a public profession of your faith. The second though not done in the same manner fills you with the Spirit. We on the other hand understand it be that with one baptism we are filled with the Spirit, if we do so in faith that Yeshua fills us with His Spirit.

Jhn 1:34 I saw this happen to Jesus, so I testify that he is the Chosen One of God.
As we know, once the Word gives us a president, it remains just that. Here we can see that Yeshua had only one baptism, and both actions were filled.

Jhn 1:35 The following day John was again standing with two of his disciples.
Jhn 1:36 As Jesus walked by, John looked at him and declared, “Look! There is the Lamb of God!”
Jhn 1:37 When John’s two disciples heard this, they followed Jesus.
Jhn 1:38 Jesus looked around and saw them following. “What do you want?” he asked them.
They replied, “Rabbi” (which means “Teacher”), “where are you staying?”
Jhn 1:39 “Come and see,” he said. It was about four o’clock in the afternoon when they went with him to the place where he was staying, and they remained with him the rest of the day.

We have talked many times on what it might be like to spend the day with Yeshua, getting the teachings, and truth straight from HaShem Himself. I really don't think we can ever really understand it until we sit with Him in heaven.
Jhn 1:40 Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, was one of these men who heard what John said and then followed Jesus.
Jhn 1:41 Andrew went to find his brother, Simon, and told him, “We have found the Messiah”
Jhn 1:42 Then Andrew brought Simon to meet Jesus. Looking intently at Simon, Jesus said, “Your name is Simon, son of John—but you will be called Cephas” (which means “Peter”).
Jhn 1:43 The next day Jesus decided to go to Galilee. He found Philip and said to him, “Come, follow me.”
Jhn 1:44 Philip was from Bethsaida, Andrew and Peter’s hometown.
Jhn 1:45 Philip went to look for Nathanael and told him, “We have found the very person Moses and the prophets wrote about! His name is Jesus, the son of Joseph from Nazareth.”
Jhn 1:46 “Nazareth!” exclaimed Nathanael. “Can anything good come from Nazareth?”
“Come and see for yourself,” Philip replied.

Can anything good from Nazareth? This may sound an odd question, until one understand it. We have found that Nazareth was looked down on by almost all from Judah. Though we are never told in prophecy that Yeshua would be from this place, we are told He would despised, rejected, and persecuted. So when we see Mat. say Yeshua was a Nazarene, he may well have speaking to this. After all one doesn't hold a people in such low regard and not treat them in this manner.
Jhn 1:47 As they approached, Jesus said, “Now here is a genuine son of Israel—a man of complete integrity.”
Jhn 1:48 “How do you know about me?” Nathanael asked.
Jesus replied, “I could see you under the fig tree before Philip found you.”
Jhn 1:49 Then Nathanael exclaimed, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God—the King of Israel!”
Jhn 1:50 Jesus asked him, “Do you believe this just because I told you I had seen you under the fig tree? You will see greater things than this.”
Jhn 1:51 Then he said, “I tell you the truth, you will all see heaven open and the angels of God going up and down on the Son of Man, the one who is the stairway between heaven and earth

Though some say that Yeshua and HaShem are not the same person, this chapter does make clear they are one and the same. Though it can be said truthfully, that Yeshua is human, it must also be remmembered that Yeshua is HaShem in human form.

I do hope this puts the book of John to rest. Don't get me wrong, I understand it was not finished, so thanks for bring that to my attention.

 

[Rainrider]

(Luk 12:8, 9 )
Mat 10:32 “Everyone who acknowledges me publicly here on earth, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven.
Mat 10:33 But everyone who denies me here on earth, I will also deny before my Father in heaven.

Here is a question we have been debating for a long time. If a person places the teachings of one writer over the teachings of Yeshua, are they denying Him?

(Luk 12:51–53; 14:26, 27 )
Mat 10:34 “Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! I came not to bring peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 ‘I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
Mat 10:36 Your enemies will be right in your own household!

Sounds a bit odd when we think of HaShem as Love. Yet in the end, we have all seen it action at some point. When a person stands for truth, and another doesn't like the truth, there is friction. The best example we can give may not be what some wish to think, however it made clear in this what the passage may be speaking of. I am sure that by now many have heard of what is called an honor killing in Islam. If a person in an a family that follows Islam turns to Yeshua, they can be killed, rejected, or even tortured. Sadly even today's christian homes we can see division. Lets say you have a family member that finds Judaeo christian fits them. Even though just a short time ago, this was the way everyone seen it. Are they chastised by today's christian? Think about how many people on here have acted when they encounter a person like us. Is it love they show?
Mat 10:37 “If you love your father or mother more than you love me, you are not worthy of being mine; or if you love your son or daughter more than me, you are not worthy of being mine.
Mat 10:38 If you refuse to take up your cross and follow me, you are not worthy of being mine.
Mat 10:39 If you cling to your life, you will lose it; but if you give up your life for me, you will find it.

Though many would give their life to save a family member, would they also willing give up their life in service of HaShem? I know most will say yes they will. Yet as we will see in Revelation, there will be many that say yes, yet willing take the mark. Even Yeshua said, (Mat. 7:21-22 that not everyone calling on His name will enter the Kingdom. Something to think about, after all if we only follow after the things we like, do we really follow The Way?

 

[Koberstein]

I find it sad that I listed this 3 days ago and it has not been posted. Well things do get over looked, so let try once more.
In this study I do ask that we keep to the life of Yeshua, how He lived His life, what religion He followed, and what His study/teaching tools were. After all if we fail to understand this, how can we say follow His example?
The Word is clear on one thing,

Hos 4:6My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

As I have seen in every post I opened, there are some that simply wish to make sure they are heard, and any one that stands in opposition of their thinking must be talked over, belittled, and or forced out. Anything to stop their understanding from getting out. However, they have little to say about how Yeshua lived His life, or what His guiding principles were.
If this thread is approved, we will examine the Life of Yeshua, and seek to find how He walked in His life. From His teachings, and His teaching alone we can learn more than one may think. I know that what I ask now will be over looked, ignored, or otherwise pushed aside. Still I must ask. If you wish to try and derail this study, please don't post. Keep in mind we are looking the life of Yeshua, NOT PAUL. Thank you for your understanding in this simple request.

A Rabbi Like No Other

Julius Wellhausen (1844-1918) was a German Bible critic with little sympathy for ancient Judaism. Yet his insights about Jesus have been quoted by many Jewish leaders through the years: "Jesus was not a Christian; he was a Jew. He did not preach a new faith, but taught men to do the will of God; and in his opinion, as also in that of the Jews, the will of God was to be found in the Law of Moses and in other books of Scripture."
Jesus not a Christian, but a Jew? Prof. Shaye I. D. Cohen, a Jewish historian who has taught at the Jewish Seminary, Harvard University, and Brown University, reminds us of just how Jewish Jesus was:
Was Jesus a Jew? Of course Jesus was a Jew. He was born of a Jewish mother of Galilee, a Jewish part of the world. All of his friends,
associates, colleagues, disciples----all of them were Jews. He regularly worshipped in Jewish communal worship, what we call synagogue. He preached from Jewish texts from the Bible. He celebrated the Jewish festivals. He was born, lived, died, taught as a Jew.

According to Prof. Joseph Klausner, Jesus
.....keeps the ceremonial laws like an observing Jew: he wears "fringes"; he goes up to Jerusalem to keep the feast of Unleavened Bread,
he celebrates the "Seder" [the traditional Passover meal], blesses the bread over the wine; he dips the various herbs into the haroseth,
drinks the "four cups" of wine [again, referring to the Passover meal] and concludes with the Hallel [a prayer based on the Psalms].

As far Jesus not being a "Christian," the word was not coined until more than a decade after his death, it occurs just three times in the
New Testament (Acts 11:26, 26:28, 1 Pet. 4:16), and it was not widely used as a designation for Jesus' followers until the second century.
And from what we can tell, the term "Christian" was coined by outsiders, possibly as a term of derision, the equivalent of calling followers of Muhammad something like "Muhammadites."

Obviously, Jesus was not a Christian but a Jew. Yet he was more than that. He was also a rabbi (although, to be clear, not in the sense of
a modern congregational rabbi). This of course, is common knowledge to many, but for others it is startling news. After all, the
traditional thinking goes like this: A Jewish religious leader is called a rabbi, but a Christian religious leader is called a pastor. And since Jesus was the founder of Christianity, his disciples would have called him a pastor, as in Pastor Christ.

Well, that certainly would have been news to his first disciples, all of them Jews. They never heard of "Christianity" in their lifetimes.
And Yeshua's first followers went to synagogue on Saturday not church on Sunday, celebrated Hanukkah not Christmas (come to think
of it, they never heard of Christmas either), and referred to any popular teacher as rabbi, using it as a title of honor and respect.

Does this sound confusing to you? Does it appear that I am mixing two religions together or that I am claiming that Christianity
doesn't exist----or that it's actually Jewish? YOU decide!

Shalom

 

[Rainrider]

A Rabbi Like No Other

Julius Wellhausen (1844-1918) was a German Bible critic with little sympathy for ancient Judaism. Yet his insights about Jesus have been quoted by many Jewish leaders through the years: "Jesus was not a Christian; he was a Jew. He did not preach a new faith, but taught men to do the will of God; and in his opinion, as also in that of the Jews, the will of God was to be found in the Law of Moses and in other books of Scripture."
Jesus not a Christian, but a Jew? Prof. Shaye I. D. Cohen, a Jewish historian who has taught at the Jewish Seminary, Harvard University, and Brown University, reminds us of just how Jewish Jesus was:
Was Jesus a Jew? Of course Jesus was a Jew. He was born of a Jewish mother of Galilee, a Jewish part of the world. All of his friends,
associates, colleagues, disciples----all of them were Jews. He regularly worshipped in Jewish communal worship, what we call synagogue. He preached from Jewish texts from the Bible. He celebrated the Jewish festivals. He was born, lived, died, taught as a Jew.

According to Prof. Joseph Klausner, Jesus
.....keeps the ceremonial laws like an observing Jew: he wears "fringes"; he goes up to Jerusalem to keep the feast of Unleavened Bread,
he celebrates the "Seder" [the traditional Passover meal], blesses the bread over the wine; he dips the various herbs into the haroseth,
drinks the "four cups" of wine [again, referring to the Passover meal] and concludes with the Hallel [a prayer based on the Psalms].

As far Jesus not being a "Christian," the word was not coined until more than a decade after his death, it occurs just three times in the
New Testament (Acts 11:26, 26:28, 1 Pet. 4:16), and it was not widely used as a designation for Jesus' followers until the second century.
And from what we can tell, the term "Christian" was coined by outsiders, possibly as a term of derision, the equivalent of calling followers of Muhammad something like "Muhammadites."

Obviously, Jesus was not a Christian but a Jew. Yet he was more than that. He was also a rabbi (although, to be clear, not in the sense of
a modern congregational rabbi). This of course, is common knowledge to many, but for others it is startling news. After all, the
traditional thinking goes like this: A Jewish religious leader is called a rabbi, but a Christian religious leader is called a pastor. And since Jesus was the founder of Christianity, his disciples would have called him a pastor, as in Pastor Christ.

Well, that certainly would have been news to his first disciples, all of them Jews. They never heard of "Christianity" in their lifetimes.
And Yeshua's first followers went to synagogue on Saturday not church on Sunday, celebrated Hanukkah not Christmas (come to think
of it, they never heard of Christmas either), and referred to any popular teacher as rabbi, using it as a title of honor and respect.

Does this sound confusing to you? Does it appear that I am mixing two religions together or that I am claiming that Christianity
doesn't exist----or that it's actually Jewish? YOU decide!

Shalom

Speaking for myself, I already knew this. The idea that Yeshua could be a christain is odd to me. After all, He never lived the life of a gentile, only a Jew.
There is a reason that at one time it was called Judaeo-christain. Something many have forgotten.

 

[Rainrider]

Mat 10:40 “Anyone who receives you receives me, and anyone who receives me receives the Father who sent me.
Mat 10:41 If you receive a prophet as one who speaks for God, you will be given the same reward as a prophet. And if you receive righteous people because of their righteousness, you will be given a reward like theirs.
Mat 10:42 And if you give even a cup of cold water to one of the least of my followers, you will surely be rewarded.”

As this speaks for it's self, I will only ask one thing. Of all the people that have posted on all the threads we have opened, how many of you can say you even offered a drink of any kind to us? From where I sit, only 1 or 2 have. The rest have made it your personal goal to make me leave. So one more question, How did that work out for you?

 

[DavidLamb]

Speaking for myself, I already knew this. The idea that Yeshua could be a christain is odd to me. After all, He never lived the life of a gentile, only a Jew.
There is a reason that at one time it was called Judaeo-christain. Something many have forgotten.

Of course Jesus Christ couldn't be a Christian, but not because He was a Jew - the first Christians were Jews - but because a Christian is a follower of Christ. He didn't follow Himself.