H
Hevosmies358
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I would just point out that if "that which is perfect" was a reference to a book (the Bible) im sure it would come with a table of contents and a list of book, a canon. Yet it did not.
do you agree with this comment is it Biblical or not?
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That which is perfect is either Jesus or our life with Him. Either way it/He is yet to come.
a lot of very interesting comments and points, I did not post the thread to combat cessationism. I think it is well-known and seen that the Apostles had more than the OT to preach Jesus. I would also say and I could be wrong, I see that we have everything today that the Apostles had to preach the Lord Jesus:
we have :
we have :
- the OT
- the words of Jesus
- the Holy Spirit
- our witness
- our testimony
The great part is that it is more blessed to be able to walk by faith than by sight.
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
I like your sig. It reminds me of a sign I saw outside our local Burger King; "Why eat with a clown when can you dine with the King?" We got a Marriage Supper to attend! PTL!
Something like a checksum would be nice as well, a system of knowing when if a verse appears in some manuscripts but not others it ought to be there.
Not sure if this adds to the convo, but it came to mind:
https://biblehub.com/text/ephesians/4-8.htm
8 Therefore it says:
“Having ascended on high,
He led captive captivity,
and gave gifts to men [G444 - anthropois (mankind)].”
11 And He gave some indeed to be apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some shepherds and teachers [or, shepherd-teachers, as some have it], [<--I believe this listing of persons are the aforementioned "gifts" (of v.8) that He gave to "mankind [G444]" after His exaltation... and I believe that there are no "apostles" today...]
https://biblehub.com/text/ephesians/4-8.htm
8 Therefore it says:
“Having ascended on high,
He led captive captivity,
and gave gifts to men [G444 - anthropois (mankind)].”
11 And He gave some indeed to be apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some shepherds and teachers [or, shepherd-teachers, as some have it], [<--I believe this listing of persons are the aforementioned "gifts" (of v.8) that He gave to "mankind [G444]" after His exaltation... and I believe that there are no "apostles" today...]
thank you all who responded to those who agree or disagree I think you all had something to offer and I learned many things from all posters. Thank you all again.
Very respectfully,
CS1
Very respectfully,
CS1
The Word of God is always Perfect.
It is peoples understanding of it that is lacking.
But then if you think about the Lord Jesus Christ the OT couldn't have been COMPLETE without the NT.
1 Corinthians 13:8-10
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
If all you had was the first 5 books of the bible would you say it was the Perfect Word of God? Yes. But is it the complete word?
I suppose it just depends on if The Lord Jesus is revealed to you through them.
It ends up being a really hard question. I find myself waffling back and forth.
Here's another passage that came to mind:
2 Corinthians 3 [bsb] -
7 Now if the ministry of death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at the face of Moses because of its fleeting glory, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry of righteousness! 10 Indeed, what was once glorious has no glory now in comparison to the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which endures!
12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at the end of what was fading away.
14 But their minds were closed. For to this day the same veil remains at the reading of the old covenant. It has not been lifted, because only in Christ can it be removed. 15 And even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.
2 Corinthians 3 [bsb] -
7 Now if the ministry of death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at the face of Moses because of its fleeting glory, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry of righteousness! 10 Indeed, what was once glorious has no glory now in comparison to the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which endures!
12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at the end of what was fading away.
14 But their minds were closed. For to this day the same veil remains at the reading of the old covenant. It has not been lifted, because only in Christ can it be removed. 15 And even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.
oh, look who has shown up to be divisive. Notice how we were all moving in the direction of edification and respectfully disagreement on. you are Wrong!
I am truthful not divisive. If the truth divides then is must be so.
The word of God is perfect. Yet the word of God was not complete until by inspiration the last words were given through holy men of God moved by the Holy Spirit to write them down for us.
The apostles and disciples had the OT scriptures and the traditions of their fathers to testify of Jehovah God and the promise of the Messiah. They did not have a completed NT until Rev 22.
The apostles and disciples had first hand accounts of Jesus ministry they did not have bound and printed bibles. Paul was very careful of his personal scrolls and letters. In history printed bibles did not come along for a long time and still were relatively expensive.
The witness and testimony of the apostles and disciples were often confirmed in their deaths for the Lord they loved and to whom they entrusted their souls.
Tribulation and persecution was very much part of their testimony and witness for Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger