Do you believe a person needs the Holy Ghost?

[eXric]

The purpose of God's salvation is to bring about the Kingdom of God. It's a tragedy that so little gospel preaching includes this. Even to see the Kingdom of God, we must be born again. It may be possible for an individual to trust Jesus for forgiveness of sins alone. I would not preach or teach this.

I've created a post to clarify the difference between the indwelling Holy Spirit and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. They are not the same thing. it is possible to have the indwelling Holy Spirit yet not walk in the Spirit. It's a choice each Christian must make for themselves

You did not link to post, and I was not going to go thru hundreds of post. Would be cool if you did put a link to your post . When you quoted me it would be better to understand what you are saying if you spoke to which point you are referring to. We might agree if we described the definition of words. seems that this is a disagreement "It may be possible for an individual to trust Jesus for forgiveness of sins alone. I would not preach or teach this. Is Forgiveness of sin alone, equal to being saved? I understand how the Baptism of the Holy Spirit might differ from the indwelt Holy Spirit, but in which way? I can also see differing churches having different teachings on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. What I call the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is when the Holy Spirit come to a saved believer and washes over them like Oil, and the believer may show sign of this with Speaking in tongues or some other Manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Gideon300]

You did not link to post, and I was not going to go thru hundreds of post. Would be cool if you did put a link to your post . When you quoted me it would be better to understand what you are saying if you spoke to which point you are referring to. We might agree if we described the definition of words. seems that this is a disagreement "It may be possible for an individual to trust Jesus for forgiveness of sins alone. I would not preach or teach this. Is Forgiveness of sin alone, equal to being saved? I understand how the Baptism of the Holy Spirit might differ from the indwelt Holy Spirit, but in which way? I can also see differing churches having different teachings on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. What I call the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is when the Holy Spirit come to a saved believer and washes over them like Oil, and the believer may show sign of this with Speaking in tongues or some other Manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

The problem is with the word "saved". Most Christians seem to think that being saved means to go to heaven when you die. That's because mostly that is what is preached. Salvation is vastly more than a "get out of hell free card". Any honest reading of the Bible makes that clear. Some churches no longer preach and teach in the meetings.

The gospel is the gospel of the Kingdom. God had a purpose in creating man and He has a purpose for the new birth. In Eden, Adam and Eve were commissioned to "God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth.”"

The part of man that died is the spirit. That is also the part that is born again. This is what it means to have new life, to have abundant life. It enables the believer to see the kingdom of God.

Is it possible to know Jesus as the one who paid for sin and yet not as the one who gives new life? I am not certain. My daughter believes that she is a Christian and that her sins are paid for. She is married to a man who hates God and who is steeped in the occult. She accepts that Jesus saves. She watches Joseph Prince, a grace preacher. And that is as far as it goes. She has no concept of the Lordship of Christ, I see no sign that she's born again and she lives entirely according to self will.

The function of the human spirit is to be the dwelling place of the godhead. God is Spirit, and therefore dwells in our human spirit. Lord Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God. Materially, if that is the right word, He sits at the right hand of the Father. The Holy Spirit is the manifestation of the Son in Spirit form. How else could He live in the heart of men?

The Word confirms this: 2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom."

We know that Jesus is Lord. Paul states that the Lord is the Spirit. When a person is born again, a transformation takes place that is literally life changing. John 14:23:

Jesus replied, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

The Father and the Son make their home in the believer. What about the Holy Spirit?
Ezekiel 36:
…26I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances.

Yes, it was written to Israel. Christians are God's people now, whether Jew or Gentile. We can see the gospel in these verses. First, a new spirit, which is to be born again. Then God puts His Spirit within us, to be the causing factor in our lives.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate experience. It may happen so quickly that it seems to be concurrent. Or, like me, it may take some years. The indwelling Spirit is to lead us and guide us and enable us to obey God. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is for power and spiritual gifts, to be witnesses to Jesus.

I agree with your understanding of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

My clarification post was removed. One day, I will understand the logic behind the various forums.

 

[lastofall]

1. yes 2. no 3. yes 4. no 5. yes 6. yes

 

[eXric]

The problem is with the word "saved". Most Christians seem to think that being saved means to go to heaven when you die. That's because mostly that is what is preached. Salvation is vastly more than a "get out of hell free card". Any honest reading of the Bible makes that clear. Some churches no longer preach and teach in the meetings.

The gospel is the gospel of the Kingdom. God had a purpose in creating man and He has a purpose for the new birth. In Eden, Adam and Eve were commissioned to "God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth.”"

The part of man that died is the spirit. That is also the part that is born again. This is what it means to have new life, to have abundant life. It enables the believer to see the kingdom of God.

Is it possible to know Jesus as the one who paid for sin and yet not as the one who gives new life? I am not certain. My daughter believes that she is a Christian and that her sins are paid for. She is married to a man who hates God and who is steeped in the occult. She accepts that Jesus saves. She watches Joseph Prince, a grace preacher. And that is as far as it goes. She has no concept of the Lordship of Christ, I see no sign that she's born again and she lives entirely according to self will.

The function of the human spirit is to be the dwelling place of the godhead. God is Spirit, and therefore dwells in our human spirit. Lord Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God. Materially, if that is the right word, He sits at the right hand of the Father. The Holy Spirit is the manifestation of the Son in Spirit form. How else could He live in the heart of men?

The Word confirms this: 2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom."

We know that Jesus is Lord. Paul states that the Lord is the Spirit. When a person is born again, a transformation takes place that is literally life changing. John 14:23:

Jesus replied, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

The Father and the Son make their home in the believer. What about the Holy Spirit?
Ezekiel 36:
…26I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances.

Yes, it was written to Israel. Christians are God's people now, whether Jew or Gentile. We can see the gospel in these verses. First, a new spirit, which is to be born again. Then God puts His Spirit within us, to be the causing factor in our lives.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate experience. It may happen so quickly that it seems to be concurrent. Or, like me, it may take some years. The indwelling Spirit is to lead us and guide us and enable us to obey God. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is for power and spiritual gifts, to be witnesses to Jesus.

I agree with your understanding of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

My clarification post was removed. One day, I will understand the logic behind the various forums.

Thanks for writing this all out, I believe it will help others in their walk. As for your daughter I feel lead to pray, that the seed of Christ was planted In her and that marriage will fail soon ( about 6 months to a year maybe). This is what I will pray and will have faith that God will do it. That will be my small part in participation in God's plan. Hope that helps. A person that just thinking they are saved will not do it. That is like if I believed that I was a car, nothing happens. If I believed what Jesus says, that is a great start.
Silly example: If Jesus said to me, to be a car you have to believe in me and you will be a car. That would be a big change to believe in. But Jesus did say : John 3:16 "Jesus said that whoever believes in Him will never perish, but have eternal life" I also believe Jesus will not abandon us, so even if we stop believing in Jesus, He still will believe in us. The seed of believe that is planted in Jesus Christ will grow.

 

[John146]

There's no need to complicate what God has made simple. Those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). And the evidence will be that they "walk" in the Spirit and also be filled with the Spirit. Christ Himself is our example.

Not everybody who is saved and has the Holy Spirit walks after the Spirit. Sometimes, myself included, people grieve the Holy Spirit by walking after the flesh. This is a daily battle.

 

[pottersclay]

Do you need the Holy Spirit
I think the story of the 10 virgins will decide for you.

Can one be called a christian without....yes in deed.

Can you save money on car insurance by switching to Geico....for the first 2 yrs.

 

[Gideon300]

Thanks for writing this all out, I believe it will help others in their walk. As for your daughter I feel lead to pray, that the seed of Christ was planted In her and that marriage will fail soon ( about 6 months to a year maybe). This is what I will pray and will have faith that God will do it. That will be my small part in participation in God's plan. Hope that helps. A person that just thinking they are saved will not do it. That is like if I believed that I was a car, nothing happens. If I believed what Jesus says, that is a great start.
Silly example: If Jesus said to me, to be a car you have to believe in me and you will be a car. That would be a big change to believe in. But Jesus did say : John 3:16 "Jesus said that whoever believes in Him will never perish, but have eternal life" I also believe Jesus will not abandon us, so even if we stop believing in Jesus, He still will believe in us. The seed of believe that is planted in Jesus Christ will grow.

Thank you for your concern and your prayers for my daughter. I'll keep you informed. I see her very rarely and she does not contact me. My son is something of a go between. It will be very interesting in the next year or so.

 

[eXric]

Can you save money on car insurance by switching to Geico....for the first 2 yrs.

Gecico should pay you for that plug. I was lol moment.

 

[Oblio]

Do you need the Holy Spirit? You want the Holy Spirit. He's awesome!

 

[Live4Him2]

1. Do you believe a person needs the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
2. Should a person call him or herself a Christian if they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
3. Are there are people out there who call themselves Christians even though they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
4. Do you think they are safe if they think they are a Christian but really don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
5. Is it important to be able distinguish between a "Christian" that has the Holy Ghost/Spirit and one that does not?
6. Are you currently able to distinguish between a "Christian" that has the Holy Ghost/Spirit one that does not....within your own church?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

1. Yes.

"Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Romans 8:9)

2. No.

Anyone who doesn't have the Spirit of Christ is none of his.

3. Yes.

Some, I would suggest, are right here on this website/forum.

4. No.

They are desperately deceived.

5. Yes.

There are many ways to distinguish the same.

Are they "holy"?

If not, then where is the evidence of the Holy Spirit.

Do they manifest the fruit of the Spirit or the works of the flesh (Gal. 5)?

Do they speak the truth?

After all, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth.

Things like that.

6. Yes, but not always with absolute certainty.

In other words, we're all going through a sanctification process, so someone might just be struggling in certain areas.

That said, if there's no genuine change over an extended period of time, then that's definitely not a good thing.

 

[DavidTree]

In the example of Acts 19, at exactly what point do they receive the Holy Ghost? And is that consistent with your idea of when a person should receive the Holy Ghost? In other words, does it say they receive the Holy Ghost at confession (of something)?

I propose that people wrongly assume that the Holy Ghost/ Holy Spirit is some automatic thing that has no evidence of arrival... and then make further wrong assumptions based on that "no evidence of arrival" doctrine. For example the false doctrine of "You can't tell if someone does or doesn't have the Holy Ghost / Holy Spirit".

I call it a false doctrine because in the Acts 19 account (as well as others) it tells us both WHEN they receive it, AND the evidence provided by the arrival of the Holy Ghost / Spirit.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Here are Three Glorified workings of the Holy Spirit.

1.) The first is to draw us unto Christ = John 6:35-40
2.) the Holy Spirit cirmcumcises our hearts = Ezekiel 36:26 , Colossians 2:11
3.) Baptism in the Holy Spirit = Matthew 3:11 and Acts chapters 1-2 , all of Acts

 

[wattie]

1. Do you believe a person needs the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
2. Should a person call him or herself a Christian if they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
3. Are there are people out there who call themselves Christians even though they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
4. Do you think they are safe if they think they are a Christian but really don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
5. Is it important to be able distinguish between a "Christian" that has the Holy Ghost/Spirit and one that does not?
6. Are you currently able to distinguish between a "Christian" that has the Holy Ghost/Spirit one that does not....within your own church?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Well having the Holy Spirit indwelling your soul is what every believer has. So if they don't have the Holy Spirit they aren't

 

[crossnote]

1. Do you believe a person needs the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
2. Should a person call him or herself a Christian if they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
3. Are there are people out there who call themselves Christians even though they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
4. Do you think they are safe if they think they are a Christian but really don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
5. Is it important to be able distinguish between a "Christian" that has the Holy Ghost/Spirit and one that does not?
6. Are you currently able to distinguish between a "Christian" that has the Holy Ghost/Spirit one that does not....within your own church?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes
4. No
5. Yes
6. In time, Yes...

(Isa 8:20) To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

(Joh 3:31) He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
etc.

 

[Edify]

1. Do you believe a person needs the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
2. Should a person call him or herself a Christian if they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
3. Are there are people out there who call themselves Christians even though they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
4. Do you think they are safe if they think they are a Christian but really don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
5. Is it important to be able distinguish between a "Christian" that has the Holy Ghost/Spirit and one that does not?
6. Are you currently able to distinguish between a "Christian" that has the Holy Ghost/Spirit one that does not....within your own church?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

1. Absolutely.
2. Absolutely not. It isn't profitable to believe a lie & be damned.
3. Yes, they call themselves christians, but they are not. They have no fruit of righteous, neither do they fear the Lord.
4. Not at all. They are not saved & deceived.
5. Yes. Every true christian has a measure of the Spirit at salvation. That measure changes our heart & perspespective on life. This helps the individual to remain saved if they desire. In that measure of the Spirit there's power to believe against sin & the world.
However the Baptism of the Spirit gives power for SERVICE to our Lord. Within it we discover our calling & what giftings the Holy Spirit appoints to us. These gifts can be strong at times & settled at other times according to the needs at hand.
6. To a great degree. Christians with the Baptism will have greater fruit than the first measure. Also, there's times of refreshing from the Lord that goes to these baptized christians. They will raise their hands & hearts in worship, magnify God in a wonderful, prophetic way that those simply saved can't do. Nevertheless, everyone involved will be edified.
Not only should we be able to tell the difference, but we should constantly remind the others that they need this baptism as well. It's for everyone saved regardless, but only those seeking it will receive it. It is still by choice, not automatic.