To the twelve tribes scattered abroad...to which of the twelve tribes do you belong?
Do you believe that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
- Thread starter MerSee
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To the twelve tribes scattered abroad...to which of the twelve tribes do you belong?
Scripture also states:
14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
I hope you're making an ark of gopher wood...
Hello MerSee, the above is obviously true in regard to us, because unlike God (who sees the heart), we have no other sure way of proving, showing/demonstrating (to ourselves and/or to others) that we have truly been justified/saved by God.
This is something that James also points out to us (in what seems, to me, at least, in a bit of a tongue in cheek manner) when he said,
James 2
18 Someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith 'without' the works, and I will show you my faith 'by' my works.
The Lord not only sees the heart of man, He is, of course, the One who justifies and saves us .. or not. IOW, He does not need proof of any kind that we are justified (or not), but we certainly do.God bless you!!
~Deuteronomy (David)
The God I belong to knows that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only.
To which tribe do you belong? Audience matters when determining doctrine.
Romans was written to the body of Christ, not to the twelve tribes.
4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Different contexts. Acts pleasing to God as just in His eyes are different to conversion at justification by faith in Christ for getting initially saved.
James is mainly writing about THE faith ..what happens after conversion. Paul though writes alot about freedom from the Law thru conversation..initial salvation..as seen in Romans 10
So.. Abraham offering up his son Isaac was justified as an act of service to God..pleasing in God's eyes.
But Abraham was justified by faith earlier at being made righteous in God's eyes.
See the difference?
According to the same passage, clothing or feeding one in need.
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
26 For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul? 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works. 28 Amen I say to you, there are some of them that stand here, that shall not taste death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Wow. Something I said must have been right to warrant 2 panels.
Ephesians 2:8-9
Ephesians 2:10
No, nothing in there about justification, And you can cloth someone and give to someone in need and still be guilty, dead in your sins and on your way to hell
If....................
Here are just a few examples of why I believe that is true.
A good rule to follow is this, whenever we find a verse/passage that appears to contradict another verse/passage in the Bible, then it is time to set aside whatever we 'thought' that we had learned and find out what the problem is, because (someway/somehow) we have clearly misinterpreted something that the Lord has said to us in the Bible and have come, thereby, to the wrong conclusion.
God bless you!!
~Deuteronomy (David)
p.s. - I used to watch Madalyn Murry O'Hair's (the famous atheist's) tv show occasionally, and I heard her say that one of the reasons that she chose to be an atheist is because "even the Bible says, 'there is no God'"!!
You know what, she's correct, the Bible does say that (out of context), a number of times, in fact, BUT IS THAT WHAT IT MEANS
For instance,
.............is to be understood and taken as a general principal and (therefore) means, "justified" both before men AND before God (instead of just before men), then (as one of the Apollo 13 astronauts famously said), "Houston, we have a problem"
Here are just a few examples of why I believe that is true.
John 3
16 God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever ~believes~ in Him ~shall not perish~, but have eternal life.
John 5
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, ~has~ eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Romans 3
28 We maintain that a man is justified by faith ~apart~ from works of the Law.
Romans 4
4 To the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor (grace), but as what is due.
5 But to the one who does 'not' work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.
Romans 10
9 If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, ~you will be saved;~
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Ephesians 2
8 By grace you have been saved through faith; and that ~not~ of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 ~not~ as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for/unto good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Titus 3
5 He saved us, ~not~ on the basis of deeds which 'we' have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit.
Scripture most often requires context to be understood correctly, because it's true meaning/the meaning that God intended it to have (and intended us to know) cannot be found apart from it. For instance, the Lord Jesus tells us plainly,
Luke 14
26 If anyone comes to Me, and does not ~hate~ his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.
Fortunately, we have other verses in the Bible, like Exodus 20:12 and Matthew 10:37, that help us understand what the Lord Jesus was actually trying to convey to us in Luke 14:26 (and conversely, Luke 14:26 gives us a richer/deeper understanding of the other two verses that I just mentioned).A good rule to follow is this, whenever we find a verse/passage that appears to contradict another verse/passage in the Bible, then it is time to set aside whatever we 'thought' that we had learned and find out what the problem is, because (someway/somehow) we have clearly misinterpreted something that the Lord has said to us in the Bible and have come, thereby, to the wrong conclusion.
God bless you!!
~Deuteronomy (David)
p.s. - I used to watch Madalyn Murry O'Hair's (the famous atheist's) tv show occasionally, and I heard her say that one of the reasons that she chose to be an atheist is because "even the Bible says, 'there is no God'"!!
You know what, she's correct, the Bible does say that (out of context), a number of times, in fact, BUT IS THAT WHAT IT MEANS
For instance,
Psalm 14
1 The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds;
There is no one who does good.
Granted, that is a hyperbolic example, but I think that it still demonstrates why context is EXTREMELY important, yes You know at some point it’s time to move past salvation. It’s like being born and looking back still discussing if you’re born or not, or how it happened.
Right, but your implying you need works and I agree but you are not saying what works, if you have faith what works would you need to be justified?