Do you believe you can die in unrepentant sin (Such as lying etc) and still be saved?

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Do you believe you can die in unrepentant sin and still be saved?


  • Total voters
    30

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#21
For if you make an excuse for thinking God will forgive you for lying, then why not for other sins that are even worse (Like say: Chopping people up into bits and eating them, or hurting or abusing children, or committing suicide)? What makes you think God will cover willful sin or open rebellion? For the Scriptures say, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins," (Hebrews 10:26); And God says in Hebrews 10:38, "Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him."
The willful sin the writer of Hebrews is talking about is an onward rejection of God Himself in the form of Christ. The writer of Hebrews (who I think is Luke dictated by Paul) is warning the Jewish believers (btw: by Jewish believers I mean of natural decent or of their nationality for distinguishing the writers audience, for we are all 1 in Christ) of the Church not to turn back from Christ and pick up the false religion of Judaism again. Many lies are committed out of human weakness, not out of a direct rebellion against God.

Isaiah 43:25
25 “I, even I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake;
And I will not remember your sins.


Jeremiah 31:31-34
A New Covenant

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Jeremiah 50:20
20 In those days and in that time,” says the Lord,
“The iniquity of Israel shall be sought, but there shall be none;
And the sins of Judah, but they shall not be found;
For I will pardon those whom I preserve."


Micah 7:18-19
18 Who is a God like You,
Pardoning iniquity
And passing over the transgression of the remnant of His heritage?


He does not retain His anger forever,
Because He delights in mercy.
19 He will again have compassion on us,
And will subdue our iniquities.
(<--- Note: if we didn't have iniquities, God wouldn't have to subdue them. If we where sinless and perfect like Christ now, this verse is unnecessary... God sweeps all our iniquities under the rug to those who place their faith in one who sacrificed Himself once for all).


You will cast all our sins
Into the depths of the sea.



Hebrews 11:25-32
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles [those who don't understand the time of the gentiles is now, the beginning of the Church till the 2nd coming of Christ, then you are still ignorant of the mystery (yes, I'm bold in saying so, sorry if this offends anyone) (PS. I reserve the right to be wrong, this is how I understand this passage)] has come in. 26 And so (in this manner, via the gospel) all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion, (Christ)
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
[those Jewish Christians who turned to Christ turned from the ungodliness in Jacob]

27
For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”


28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake [John say anyone who rejects Christ is an anti-Christ], but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable [God has not forgotten the Jews or removed their chance for salvation in Christ, anyone can repent. Christ is still available to them if they choice to receive Him...It is God's desire (will) that all shall come to the knowledge of Him]. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience [God used their disobedience/unbelief to send Christ to the cross, it wasn't the Roman authorities who initiated it],31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy [the author confirms my commentary]. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all [Gentiles, to the majority of which the book of Romans was written to]

Hebrews 10:11-18

Christ’s Death Perfects the Sanctified

11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified <---- [to those who are being set apart, to those who being converted, to those who are being saved]
15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

Final conclusion, Jason, do you really think God will keep those out who are in covenant with Christ for a minor infraction? If that's the case, then I'd have to conclude that our governing state is more merciful then God our Father.

Disclaimer: I am bold in expressing in my understanding of Scripture and I present myself on this forum in that way, however I reserve the right to be wrong and the right to change my opinions/understandings upon any correction of the Holy Spirit and/or logical form of reasoning. I'm sorry in advance if I offend anyone, it is not my purpose at all.


 
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purgedconscience

Guest
#22
Disclaimer: I am bold in expressing in my understanding of Scripture and I present myself on this forum in that way, however I reserve the right to be wrong and the right to change my opinions/understandings upon any correction of the Holy Spirit and/or logical form of reasoning. I'm sorry in advance if I offend anyone, it is not my purpose at all.
I'd just like to say that I like your disclaimer. Would to God that we all truly felt that way.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
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#23
No one can carry a single sin into heaven.



Acts 5:1-11. Ananias and Sapphira lied.
Where in Scripture does it claim that Ananias and Sapphira ended up in Hell? Why didn't Peter die suddenly for all His offences? God and Paul had it correct Peter a few times in scripture for his mistakes.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#24
...do you really think God will keep those out who are in covenant with Christ for a minor infraction?
How many infractions (minor or major) can a Christian commit before God would keep him out of heaven? Or has the Christian been given a license to commit innumerable infractions (minor or major) with those infractions have no effect, impact upon his entering heaven?

(Is there such a thing with God as minor and major sins or are all sins the same with God?)
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#25
Where in Scripture does it claim that Ananias and Sapphira ended up in Hell? Why didn't Peter die suddenly for all His offences? God and Paul had it correct Peter a few times in scripture for his mistakes.
Where in scripture does it say they ended up saved?

One can lie and one can tempt the Holy Spirit and be saved anyway?

Did God owe Ananias and Sapphira something?
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
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#26
Where in scripture does it say they ended up saved?

One can lie and one can tempt the Holy Spirit and be saved anyway?

Did God owe Ananias and Sapphira something?
By one offering He has perfected for ever those who have been and therefore now are sanctified. So if they were His sanctified ones they were saved. If they were not it demonstrates that they had never been Christians.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
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#28
How many infractions (minor or major) can a Christian commit before God would keep him out of heaven? Or has the Christian been given a license to commit innumerable infractions (minor or major) with those infractions have no effect, impact upon his entering heaven?

(Is there such a thing with God as minor and major sins or are all sins the same with God?)
All sin separates us from God, however, God sent Jesus to solve that problem. Now the believer has the problem of allowing or co-operating with God in allowing Him to change us into the image of His son, spiritual growth, so that we can be used by Him. Major infraction is walking away from the faith completely. Minor infractions are the one you commit in human weakness or unawareness. When Jesus told the disciples we should forgive each other 70x7, did He exclude Himself or God the Father of this concept? Does God tell us to do something that He Himself will not do?
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#29
How many infractions (minor or major) can a Christian commit before God would keep him out of heaven? Or has the Christian been given a license to commit innumerable infractions (minor or major) with those infractions have no effect, impact upon his entering heaven?

(Is there such a thing with God as minor and major sins or are all sins the same with God?)
That number of sins which were not covered by His atoning work. Every Christian living commits innumerable infractions, mostly unconsciously. Thank God we are not aware of most of them. But God is, and every one of them is sufficient to send us to Hell were it nor for the cross. Were we not wholly dependent on His mercy we would be without hope. But if we are true Christians CHRIST has guaranteed to see us through.

And even Jason can't stop Him.
 
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purgedconscience

Guest
#30
Heartbreaking heresy. I pity you.
I wish that people wouldn't parse quotes. I was ready to pity him as well, but then I searched to see what he actually said and you misrepresented him by parsing his comment. I've almost been misled by peoples' misrepresentative parsed quotes or allegations which proved to be false several times here in just two days. Let's please be considerate of others and how our comments might affect them. Thank you.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#31
Do you believe you can die in unrepentant sin (Such as lying, looking upon women lustfully, and hating, etc) and still be saved?

Please back up what you say with Scripture on this issue.

Thank you.
And may God bless you all.
How about I give you a year's worth of scripture to "back up" my beliefs.

A challenge for you. Read Spurgeon's Daily Devotions -- both morning and evening -- for one year. (Particularly useful is this evening's devotional.) And then you answer this question. At the very least, you might come out of it with an understanding on how deep sin is in us. At the very best, you'll learn much about God's glory. You cheapen sin by assuming you've repented of it all. And, in cheapening sin you really cheapen God and his glory.

Just one year. That's all I ask. And on Tuesday, June 14th, 2016, after you've done that and can still post this, I'll listen, because then you might have something to teach me.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#32
By one offering He has perfected for ever those who have been and therefore now are sanctified. So if they were His sanctified ones they were saved. If they were not it demonstrates that they had never been Christians.

Heb 10:14 'them that are sanctified" refers the the group "Christian". No one is ever Unconditionally sanctified apart from the group. One can sin and fall form this sanctified group. The group remains sanctified but the individual that fell from the sanctified group does not remain sanctified. 2 Tim 2:21 one must purge himself to be sanctified, 1 Cor 6:11 Paul told the Corinthian Christians they had been sanctified (past tense) but later still warns them about falling away 1 Cor 10:12.

Ananias and Sapphira were of the group that believed, members of that early church, Acts 4:32-37.
 
Dec 1, 2014
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#33
I wish that people wouldn't parse quotes. I was ready to pity him as well, but then I searched to see what he actually said and you misrepresented him by parsing his comment. I've almost been misled by peoples' misrepresentative parsed quotes or allegations which proved to be false several times here in just two days. Let's please be considerate of others and how our comments might affect them. Thank you.
Stick around. You'll find this one shuts out the Kingdom of Heaven against man.

My parsed quote is not misleading in the grand scheme of things, but I appreciate your comment.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#34
Heartbreaking heresy. I pity you.
You only quoted PART of what I said.

My WHOLE quote:

The case of Ananias and Sapphire shows:
1) God is not a God of love and nothing more, but a God of justice and God will punish men.
2) God does not overlook or excuse sin.
3) grace does not automatically, unconditionally cover sin.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#35
All sin separates us from God, however, God sent Jesus to solve that problem. Now the believer has the problem of allowing or co-operating with God in allowing Him to change us into the image of His son, spiritual growth, so that we can be used by Him. Major infraction is walking away from the faith completely. Minor infractions are the one you commit in human weakness or unawareness. When Jesus told the disciples we should forgive each other 70x7, did He exclude Himself or God the Father of this concept? Does God tell us to do something that He Himself will not do?
Jesus does not forgive sins automatically or unconditionally. Jesus said to repent or perish, Lk 13:3,5.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#36
That number of sins which were not covered by His atoning work. Every Christian living commits innumerable infractions, mostly unconsciously. Thank God we are not aware of most of them. But God is, and every one of them is sufficient to send us to Hell were it nor for the cross. Were we not wholly dependent on His mercy we would be without hope. But if we are true Christians CHRIST has guaranteed to see us through.

And even Jason can't stop Him.
The question I ask is how many sins can the Christian commit before it has an effect upon his entering heaven? If one sin can enter heaven why not thousands of sins entering heaven? If one sin has no effect upon the Christian entering heaven then thousands of sins should have no effect either. Has the Christian a license to sin without the sinning having no effect upon his entering heaven? No.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
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48
#37
Where in scripture does it say they ended up saved? It doesn't, nor does it say they went to hell. Therefore to state one destination or an other is only stating ones opinion. To pronounce eternal judgment on someone without biblical written evidences is wrong, can you or Jason see through the hearts of men and women like God can? I'd be very careful playing the devil advocate here, you and Jason both, always accusing the brethren before God about our sin and inadequacies.

One can lie and one can tempt the Holy Spirit and be saved anyway? It's not my call to make. In some cases God told His children to lie in the OT (God sent a lying spirit among His prophets to bring about a certain outcome. God told Samuel to lie when going to anoint David with oil (Samuel 16). Was it a sin for certain Germans to hide Jews during the Holocaust? Is it a lie if you tell governing authorities who bannedd the bible that you are aren't smuggling bibles into their country? I don't think the Holy Spirit can be tempted, I'm not sure what you mean by that question.

Did God owe Ananias and Sapphira something? I don't know what you mean. God owes us all to be who he says he is, that is to say that God will never go back on His promises, He is faithful even when we are not. I believe Ananias and Sapphira were used more of an object lesson and to make a point. If God treated everyone like Ananias and Sapphira, we'd all be dead.
Read my responses above in green. I lack the time to divide each question out with a proper response.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#38
Jesus does not forgive sins automatically or unconditionally. Jesus said to repent or perish, Lk 13:3,5.
repent of what? Did you even look at the context of what Jesus is actually saying in Luke 13:1-5?

hint:“Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things?3 I tell you, no;
 

nowyouseem033

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2014
535
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#39
The question I ask is how many sins can the Christian commit before it has an effect upon his entering heaven? If one sin can enter heaven why not thousands of sins entering heaven? If one sin has no effect upon the Christian entering heaven then thousands of sins should have no effect either. Has the Christian a license to sin without the sinning having no effect upon his entering heaven? No.
Seabass then... you better check your list of all the sins you committed today, and repent of all of them.

NOTE: Sin is not only doing that which you ought not be doing, but also not doing that which you ought to be doing.

So check your sins of commission, (that which you shouldn't be doing), and your sins of omission. (that which you ought to be doing).

Lets see if you pass. Did you repent today of not loving God perfectly? Did you read Gods Word fully? Did you Obey God in every decision you made today? Was every decision you made today according to your flesh rather spirit?

LOL... and ladys and gents... This is how you become a mere moralist and legalist.

We repent of the things that we are aware of and the things that the spirit convicts us of.
But hands down guaranteed there are a multitude of sins I am not aware of....
Salvation comes by means of grace through repentance... not by repentance through grace.
Our sins are covered by Christ blood past, present, future. That's the power of the blood of Christ.
 
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purgedconscience

Guest
#40
We repent of the things that we are aware of and the things that the spirit convicts us of.
But hands down guaranteed there are a multitude of sins I am not aware of....
I agree with you that there are a multitude of sins of which we're more than likely not presently aware and that God holds us accountable for what we actually do know, but I think that the question is what happens to those who don't repent of the sins which we are aware of and that the Holy Spirit convicts us of?