Do you believe you can die in unrepentant sin (Such as lying etc) and still be saved?

[nowyouseem033]

and repent now for the sins you are committing... the ones you wouldn't know about. LOL quickly!!!! A car could come and wipe you out any second!!!!!!!!!
Have you gone through your checklist yet SeaBass.... You better get off CC and get crackin.

God forbid you die and God finds the sin of unbelief the moment the car came and smashed you and you DOUBTED Gods power to rescue you that moment.

 

[valiant]

Heb 10:14 'them that are sanctified" refers the the group "Christian".

what absolute rubbish. There is no such thing as a 'group Christian.' People are sanctified individually, not as a group. Although clearly a number of sanctified Christians make up a sanctified group.

Just think of the motley group of Christians at Corinth with all their sins and weaknesses. But Paul described them as 'sanctified in Christ Jesus.

No one is ever Unconditionally sanctified apart from the group.

Rubbish. The moment a person comes to Jesus Christ he/she is sanctified in Christ for ever. He is made unto us sanctification (1 Cor 1.30). we are sanctified ones (1 Cor 1.2). He is one of the elect who have been sanctified by the Spirit unto the obedience of Jesus Christ, and the sprinkling of His blood (1 Pet 1.2).

Each Christian is spoke of as a 'saint' - a sanctified one. (Phil 4.21). He has an inheritance among all those who have been sanctified by faith in Him. Group sanctification which is not personal is a chimera. a myth.

One can sin and fall form this sanctified group. The group remains sanctified but the individual that fell from the sanctified group does not remain sanctified.

Jesus deals with us one by one as individuals. There is no such things as a sanctified group unless you are referring to a group of sanctified ones. Once Jesus has sanctified an individual he is sanctified for ever.

So you are saying that if all leave the group then there is still a sanctified group consisting of no one? You only have to spell it out to show how ridiculous it is.

2 Tim 2:21 one must purge himself to be sanctified,

As with the idea of being saved sanctification is spoken of in a number of ways:

I have been sanctified once for all (1 Cr 6.11) and therefore am totally acceptable to God.

I have been sanctified and therefore now am sanctified (Heb 10.14).

I am in process of sanctification, I am 'being sanctified'. 'This is the will of God, even your sanctification'.

One day I will be wholly sanctified.

By my response to God I can sanctify myself to His service (2 Tim 2.21).

1 Cor 6:11 Paul told the Corinthian Christians they had been sanctified (past tense) but later still warns them about falling away 1 Cor 10:12.

Yes they have been sanctified once for all.

1 Cor 10.12 does not refer to 'falling away'. It refers to falling through pride, tripping up. A sanctified person can trip up. But he does not cease to be one of Christ's sanctified one.

Ananias and Sapphira were of the group that believed, members of that early church, Acts 4:32-37.

Show me where they were described as sanctified. Any church is made up of real Christians and nominal ones. Also show me where it says they were lost. They may well have been of that number who die at God's hand so that they may not be condemned with the world (1 Cor 11.30-32).

Some of you have such a small vindictive God.

 

[SeaBass]

Read my responses above in green. I lack the time to divide each question out with a proper response.

The man made teaching of eternal security says salvation is UNconditional. that the Christian cannot lose his salvation under ANY condition.

Yet the bible teaches the Christian must CONDITIONALLY repent of his sins or else perish. So eternal securists are now trying to find a way to get the Christian who sins a way to get around those sins WITHOUT CONDITIONALLY repenting of his sins.

If a Christian can commit the sins of lying and tempting the Spirit of God and still be saved, then that opens the door to allowing/licensing the Christian to commit ANY sin to ANY degree and remain unconditionally saved. If the Christian does not have to repent of his sins but can carry those sins into heaven with him then what purpose did Christ serve in dying on the cross and shedding His blood to cleanse away the sins of the Christian if those sins do not have to be repented of and cleansed away but instead those sins can taken into heaven?


There are verses that teaching lying and tempting God is sinful. Sin separates one from God which is a lost state. So what in the context of Acts 5 says the sins of Ananias and Sapphira did not separate them from God? Is it not a promise of God to punish them that sin? Yes it is. Can God lie and go against what He has promised? No He cannot.

Did God owe salvation to Ananias and Sapphira? No. Even though man may not be faithful to God, God is faithful to Himself, faithful to His promise to punish those that sin and do not repent of their sins.

 

[purgedconscience]

and repent now for the sins you are committing... the ones you wouldn't know about. LOL quickly!!!! A car could come and wipe you out any second!!!!!!!!!
Have you gone through your checklist yet SeaBass.... You better get off CC and get crackin.

God forbid you die and God finds the sin of unbelief the moment the car came and smashed you and you DOUBTED Gods power to rescue you that moment.

I'm guessing that you're being a little bit facetious to make your point, but this goes back to what I stated in my initial response on this thread. What I see in scripture is that God is longsuffering and He gives us ample time to repent, so I don't see the type of scenario which you're describing actually being carried out. As such, I go back to my question of what happens to those who don't repent of sins which God has made them more than aware of and given them ample time to repent of?

 

[Sirk]

You better hope so.

 

[nowyouseem033]

I agree with you that there are a multitude of sins of which we're more than likely not presently aware and that God holds us accountable for what we actually do know, but I think that the question is what happens to those who don't repent of the sins which we are aware of and that the Holy Spirit convicts us of?

1: Wouldn't a loving God allow you time to repent of that sin before you die (he runs the universe here) and/or
2: If you continue to not repent, which is in turn supressing the spirit then theres a good chance youll be reprobate or your not even saved

Distinction: Living in sin and Willful/habitual sinning is much different than that of stumbling

 

[SeaBass]

repent of what? Did you even look at the context of what Jesus is actually saying in Luke 13:1-5?

hint:“Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things?3 I tell you, no;

One must repent of his sins else perish. Jesus is calling sinners to repent giving examples of those that refused God's command to repent.

 

[purgedconscience]

1: Wouldn't a loving God allow you time to repent of that sin before you die (he runs the universe here) and/or

Yes. That's precisely what I've been saying all along.

2: If you continue to not repent, which is in turn supressing the spirit then theres a good chance youll be reprobate or your not even saved

Distinction: Living in sin and Willful/habitual sinning is much different than that of stumbling

I also agree with this distinction, so we're in agreement.

 

[SeaBass]

Seabass then... you better check your list of all the sins you committed today, and repent of all of them.

NOTE: Sin is not only doing that which you ought not be doing, but also not doing that which you ought to be doing.

So check your sins of commission, (that which you shouldn't be doing), and your sins of omission. (that which you ought to be doing).

Lets see if you pass. Did you repent today of not loving God perfectly? Did you read Gods Word fully? Did you Obey God in every decision you made today? Was every decision you made today according to your flesh rather spirit?

LOL... and ladys and gents... This is how you become a mere moralist and legalist.

We repent of the things that we are aware of and the things that the spirit convicts us of.
But hands down guaranteed there are a multitude of sins I am not aware of....
Salvation comes by means of grace through repentance... not by repentance through grace.
Our sins are covered by Christ blood past, present, future. That's the power of the blood of Christ.

1 Jn 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

As long as the Christian CONDITIONALLY continues to walk in the light then the blood of Christ continues to wash away ALL sins.

No verse says the blood of Christ will just automatically unconditionally wash away the sins of the Christian while the Christian does nothing.

 

[Utah]

The lack of faith in Jesus' saving grace around here is sickening. Where's the glory?

 

[ember]

You better hope so.

Dog! you beat me to it!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Jason, seriously how many times do we have to go around this merry go round?


Yes you will still be saved...
God created man knowing full well that we will sin. If He was that harsh to be unforgiving of our unforgiven sins then we would all be on our way to hell.

Believers in Christ are new creations

2 Corinthians 5:17
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Galatians 5:22–23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Romans 6:5-7
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Amen to this...and for sure because of his salvation lite heretical dogma he fails to understand that where sin abounds that grace much more abounds and deals with our sin before we even sin as a believer.......

 

[Budman]

Jason, I've spent quite a lot of time on this forum reading your posts, and the responses to them.

There have been many theologically strong Christians here who have repeatedly tried to correct/help you, but you tend to dismiss their arguments out of hand, or you try to explain them away by the most bizarre reasoning I have rarely encountered.

You will say certain verses don't actually mean what they clearly do, or you will even go so far as to claim whole Biblical chapters or books are entirely allegorical when, again, they clearly are not.

In comparison to you, I have known cult members who were more rational and less spiritually blinded.

Jason, you clearly desire to live under the Law. And the only reason why that I can figure, is you are full of pride. You seem to want to present yourself as stronger, more holy, loyal, and advanced than any other follower of Christ. It's almost as if you fancy yourself an Old Testament prophet.

I have yet to read a post of yours that was truly helpful spiritually to anyone.

You wish to appear so enlightened, but in fact, you are "wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked." (Revelation 3:17)

I literally fear for your soul.

 

[ember]

Seems some people believe God will make an appointment with us 15 mins before we die so that we can repent

Seems some people believe they know themselves better than God

Somebody needs to find a job and quit coming on here with nonsense.....

To whom it may concern:

Jason does not exemplify Christians beliefs. Please don't judge Christians by him or those who are attached to him like remoras on a shark

Don't bother trying to rebuke me if you are one of those remoras...I'm past it

Jason....whatever pit you dwell in is not where the rest of us live nor where God places us. Your crazy religious rantings have nothing to do with reality...other than your own

I have reached the point where I believe what you post is actually disgusting...like dirty underwear that has not been changed in years...it smells of death....God gives us new life through His Spirit. You don't represent anything but death

 

[Utah]

If you continue to not repent, which is in turn supressing the spirit then theres a good chance youll be reprobate or your not even saved

Distinction: Living in sin and Willful/habitual sinning is much different than that of stumbling

At 21, your sex drive is in 5th gear. If you're not married then what? Do you suppress your drive or satisfy it? If you satisfy it, do you repent? If you repent, do you satisfy and repent again? Repeat process?

Do you believe God sends people to hell for masturbating? If so then you're saying Jesus Christ's magnificent victory over sin and death is all for not. Pretty silly.

 

[dcontroversal]

No one can carry a single sin into heaven.



Acts 5:1-11. Ananias and Sapphira lied.

What verse said they went to hell.....it is obvious you guys are ignorant of the fact that God uses physical death as a form of punishment, but does not necessarily equate to spiritual death and being cast into the lake of fire......such as the fornicating brother who was a member of the Corinthian church......the truth is simple...you and your buddy believe a gospel which has no power to save and that is why you are blind to so much truth as it takes actually being born again to understand the word....as long as you trust into yourself, your works, your water and sinless perfectionism you both with remain blind as bats without echo location!

 

[valiant]

The question I ask is how many sins can the Christian commit before it has an effect upon his entering heaven?

will a hundred trillion do? you see my entering Heaven does not depend on what I do, it depends on what Jesus Christ does. He is my Saviour, not me. He has chosen me, made me His own, made me accounted as righteous before God, is sanctifying me, and will present me perfect before Him. He won't be hindered by a mere hundred trillion sins. He knew about those when He called me.

you see I sin all the time. How much I ought to love the Father, but I am conscious that my love is so small most of the time. I even sometimes grumble at His ways. Think of that! How much I ought to love Jesus Christ. But my love for Him, whilst genuine, comes far short of what it should be all the time. What chance do I have when I am so sinful all the time? The answer is JESUS. HE loves Me.

If one sin can enter heaven why not thousands of sins entering heaven? If one sin has no effect upon the Christian entering heaven then thousands of sins should have no effect either.

No sin can enter Heaven. That's why when I die Christ will finally purify me from all sin, just as He will the living at the rapture. He will present me perfect before Him CLOTHED IN THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST (2 Cor 5.21).

Has the Christian a license to sin without the sinning having no effect upon his entering heaven? No.

That is two questions. Have I a license to sin? NO NO NO If I sin will it affect me entering Heaven? NO NO NO

You see wherever my list of sins may be when I enter Heaven, it will have written across it 'tetelestai' (it is finished, the price has been paid).

Thank you Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Bookends]

By one offering He has perfected for ever those who have been and therefore now are sanctified. So if they were His sanctified ones they were saved. If they were not it demonstrates that they had never been Christians.

How do you know they weren't saved? If they weren't saved, hypothetically speaking, why would God kill them instantly, while those who blasphemed against the Holy Spirit (ex. pharisees) were allowed to live. Why weren't they given the opportunity to repent? There is something deeper going on here. I think it has to do more with those who watched, object lesson, then the sin they committed.

 

[dcontroversal]

Where in Scripture does it claim that Ananias and Sapphira ended up in Hell? Why didn't Peter die suddenly for all His offences? God and Paul had it correct Peter a few times in scripture for his mistakes.

Their fallacies are evident as they continually contradict themselves with their false gospels......they both are blind to grace much more abounding over our sin as a believer, the continual mediatorship of Jesus, the fact that our life has been HID within Christ and the fact that God uses physical death as a punishment yet the spirit is saved, sealed and eternally secure....really it comes down to them both being blind because of their own false gospel.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Seems some people believe God will make an appointment with us 15 mins before we die so that we can repent

Seems some people believe they know themselves better than God

Somebody needs to find a job and quit coming on here with nonsense.....

To whom it may concern:

Jason does not exemplify Christians beliefs. Please don't judge Christians by him or those who are attached to him like remoras on a shark

Don't bother trying to rebuke me if you are one of those remoras...I'm past it

Jason....whatever pit you dwell in is not where the rest of us live nor where God places us. Your crazy religious rantings have nothing to do with reality...other than your own

I have reached the point where I believe what you post is actually disgusting...like dirty underwear that has not been changed in years...it smells of death....God gives us new life through His Spirit. You don't represent anything but death

Amen to that...there are about 5 on here that fit that bill......