Do you believe you can die in unrepentant sin (Such as lying etc) and still be saved?
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You said, I quote:
" At least I do because sometimes there's a lot of junk in this trunk. Lol"
Then I said,
You added a .... "Lol" which is a laugh symbol to your phrase of saying you that you sometimes have a lot of junk in your trunk. If you were not talking about sin, then what were you talking about?
Also, my name is not Francis.
" At least I do because sometimes there's a lot of junk in this trunk. Lol"
Then I said,
"Is junk in your trunk in reference to sin? If so, why do you find "sin" in your life to be a laughing matter?"
You added a .... "Lol" which is a laugh symbol to your phrase of saying you that you sometimes have a lot of junk in your trunk. If you were not talking about sin, then what were you talking about?
Also, my name is not Francis.
Well, the Lord did not approve of Sarah lying because He rebuked her.
As for Rahab: Well, Rahab did not break the 9th Commandment and lie. She was using the art of war in protecting the interests of God's people. For she did not lie to protect herself or to cover up another sin or anything of that nature.
For in war time or in protecting your loved ones or God's people, a person can use the art of war to defend that which is good. This sometimes unfortunately involves deceiving and or eliminating your enemy; However, these things are not done out of selfish ambition, but they are done in order to preserve innocent lives or to protect the common good.
For the Hebrew midwives had lied to the Pharoah's servants to protect the innocent (Exodus 1).
And King David pretended he was crazy when he was not crazy in front of the enemy king of Gath named "Achish" (1 Samuel 21:10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15).
Also, Elisha deceived the enemy when they were blinded by lying about where he was taking them. (2 Kings 6:19)
In addition in Joshua 8:
Joshua himself went in battle against the city of Ai, they pretended that they were being defeated and they retreated. They weren’t being defeated—it was a trap. The Israelites deceived them.
Please take note that God told Joshua to lay an ambush for the army at Ai. If you were to read the chapter, this ambush involved deception. In other words, God was telling Joshua to deceive their enemies as a part of the art of war.
However, if a certain spirit was telling Joshua to lie so as to cover up a sin and or his own embarrassment or shame about something, then that would be a wrong spirit who was trying to make Joshua break the 9th Commandment.
As for Rahab: Well, Rahab did not break the 9th Commandment and lie. She was using the art of war in protecting the interests of God's people. For she did not lie to protect herself or to cover up another sin or anything of that nature.
For in war time or in protecting your loved ones or God's people, a person can use the art of war to defend that which is good. This sometimes unfortunately involves deceiving and or eliminating your enemy; However, these things are not done out of selfish ambition, but they are done in order to preserve innocent lives or to protect the common good.
For the Hebrew midwives had lied to the Pharoah's servants to protect the innocent (Exodus 1).
And King David pretended he was crazy when he was not crazy in front of the enemy king of Gath named "Achish" (1 Samuel 21:10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15).
Also, Elisha deceived the enemy when they were blinded by lying about where he was taking them. (2 Kings 6:19)
In addition in Joshua 8:
Joshua himself went in battle against the city of Ai, they pretended that they were being defeated and they retreated. They weren’t being defeated—it was a trap. The Israelites deceived them.
Please take note that God told Joshua to lay an ambush for the army at Ai. If you were to read the chapter, this ambush involved deception. In other words, God was telling Joshua to deceive their enemies as a part of the art of war.
However, if a certain spirit was telling Joshua to lie so as to cover up a sin and or his own embarrassment or shame about something, then that would be a wrong spirit who was trying to make Joshua break the 9th Commandment.
If God would never leave us nor forsake us because of unrepentant sin,, then he would have to apologize to unbelievers for living just as sinful lives. James says the demons also believe and tremble. And the passage you quote is in Hebrews 13 (about Christ never leaving us) is in reference to the faithful believer. How so? Go back to the end of the previous chapter. In Hebrews 12:14 it says without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.
In addition, there is Hebrews 5:9, as well. It says,
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"
So Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY him. So we must obey Jesus and not just believe in Him as the Savior.
As for being forgiven past, present, and future: There is no actual verse that says that. The Bible only mentions how we are forgiven of past sin when we come to the Lord (2 Peter 1:9 NIV). If a believer sins again, then need to go to their advocate Jesus Christ and confess their sin whereby he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9). For the only way for the blood to cleanse you of all sin is if you walk in the light as he is in the light (1 John 1:7).
In addition, there is Hebrews 5:9, as well. It says,
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"
So Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY him. So we must obey Jesus and not just believe in Him as the Savior.
As for being forgiven past, present, and future: There is no actual verse that says that. The Bible only mentions how we are forgiven of past sin when we come to the Lord (2 Peter 1:9 NIV). If a believer sins again, then need to go to their advocate Jesus Christ and confess their sin whereby he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9). For the only way for the blood to cleanse you of all sin is if you walk in the light as he is in the light (1 John 1:7).
Jason sometimes I find your sense of what is sin, or not, to be very twisted.
What on earth is 'the art of war'?
I think what you meanis, that in a situation where the 6th commandment is in danger of being broken by the enemy, then breaking the 9th yourself is the lesser evil and forgiveable. It is not okay to break that 6th commandment yourself.
What on earth is 'the art of war'?
I think what you meanis, that in a situation where the 6th commandment is in danger of being broken by the enemy, then breaking the 9th yourself is the lesser evil and forgiveable. It is not okay to break that 6th commandment yourself.
Actually the ninth commandment is not about lying. It is speaking about bearing false witness and has in mind a court of justice.
As you yourself made clear deceit is an integral part of warfare, and indeed it is of salesmanship. Most advertising is deceitful to a certain extent. Many Chinese Christians would willingly lie in order to 'save a person's face' and see themselves as justified in doing so. Thus lying is a more complicated issue than merely bearing false witness, and it is sometimes justifiable as you admit. If I had been in Nazi Germany hiding a Jew I would not have considered it reprehensible to lie in order to keep him hidden.
So using your criteria lying might get me to Heaven
Is my eternal destiny therefore dependent on my being able to discern when deceit is right and when it is not?
Your problem Jason is that you are trying to save yourself. What if your interpretation of deceit happens to be wrong? Then you will go to Hell when you thought you were bound for Heaven. It is so different for us who are in Christ. We are being borne there by Another. Whilst He may sometimes have to give us a good thrashing He promises to see us safely through, covering us with His righteousness. Thus we are safe in His hands.
As you yourself made clear deceit is an integral part of warfare, and indeed it is of salesmanship. Most advertising is deceitful to a certain extent. Many Chinese Christians would willingly lie in order to 'save a person's face' and see themselves as justified in doing so. Thus lying is a more complicated issue than merely bearing false witness, and it is sometimes justifiable as you admit. If I had been in Nazi Germany hiding a Jew I would not have considered it reprehensible to lie in order to keep him hidden.
So using your criteria lying might get me to Heaven
Is my eternal destiny therefore dependent on my being able to discern when deceit is right and when it is not? Your problem Jason is that you are trying to save yourself. What if your interpretation of deceit happens to be wrong? Then you will go to Hell when you thought you were bound for Heaven. It is so different for us who are in Christ. We are being borne there by Another. Whilst He may sometimes have to give us a good thrashing He promises to see us safely through, covering us with His righteousness. Thus we are safe in His hands.
Actually the ninth commandment is not about lying. It is speaking about bearing false witness and has in mind a court of justice.
As you yourself made clear deceit is an integral part of warfare, and indeed it is of salesmanship. Most advertising is deceitful to a certain extent. Many Chinese Christians would willingly lie in order to 'save a person's face' and see themselves as justified in doing so. Thus lying is a more complicated issue than merely bearing false witness, and it is sometimes justifiable as you admit. If I had been in Nazi Germany hiding a Jew I would not have considered it reprehensible to lie in order to keep him hidden.
So using your criteria lying might get me to Heaven Is my eternal destiny therefore dependent on my being able to discern when deceit is right and when it is not?
Your problem Jason is that you are trying to save yourself. What if your interpretation of deceit happens to be wrong? Then you will go to Hell when you thought you were bound for Heaven. It is so different for us who are in Christ. We are being borne there by Another. Whilst He may sometimes have to give us a good thrashing He promises to see us safely through, covering us with His righteousness. Thus we are safe in His hands.
As you yourself made clear deceit is an integral part of warfare, and indeed it is of salesmanship. Most advertising is deceitful to a certain extent. Many Chinese Christians would willingly lie in order to 'save a person's face' and see themselves as justified in doing so. Thus lying is a more complicated issue than merely bearing false witness, and it is sometimes justifiable as you admit. If I had been in Nazi Germany hiding a Jew I would not have considered it reprehensible to lie in order to keep him hidden.
So using your criteria lying might get me to Heaven
Is my eternal destiny therefore dependent on my being able to discern when deceit is right and when it is not? Your problem Jason is that you are trying to save yourself. What if your interpretation of deceit happens to be wrong? Then you will go to Hell when you thought you were bound for Heaven. It is so different for us who are in Christ. We are being borne there by Another. Whilst He may sometimes have to give us a good thrashing He promises to see us safely through, covering us with His righteousness. Thus we are safe in His hands.
As for God's people going to war like in the Old Testament: Well, the Scriptures say the Law has changed. Meaning, God is not currently commanding us to go to war while we live under the New Testament.
The art of war is of the Old Covenant. What is the art of war? Military tactics or strategies used in combat or battle to win against the enemy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_War
For surely you understand that destroying and deceiving an enemy during war time is different than taking life and or lying for your selfish purposes. For example: Suicide is a self murder; Yet if you sacrifice your life to save your friends, it is the greatest kind of love that there is. This is what Jesus did for you and me.
Did I say differently? I suggest that you read my post again. What I pointed out was that there were circumstances in which lying might be justified, and each person has to decide for themselves in each case. Your view of right and wrong is so simplistic. And according to you if you get any of it wrong, down you go to Hell.
I actually said nothing about this. You simply did not read my post. However, all men are responsible for the self defence of their families whether Old or New Testament .
What strange ideas you do have
LOL you are not dealing here with any points that I made. Surely you realise that?
What has this to do with suicide? Do you realise that you are simply arguing with yourself?.
I actually said nothing about this. You simply did not read my post. However, all men are responsible for the self defence of their families whether Old or New Testament .
What strange ideas you do have
LOL you are not dealing here with any points that I made. Surely you realise that?
What has this to do with suicide? Do you realise that you are simply arguing with yourself?.
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