Do You Celebrate Christmas?

[newbirth]

Well I think the problem for me is that I feel that those who don’t celebrate are calling people who do sinners and not real Christians.And that those who dont are more Christlike.That would upset anyone.

the problem is you place the doctrine of Christmas over the doctrine of Christ....Christ was born yes...but his ministry started after he was baptised...scripture records no one following him or his teachings before that time...yet people form a whole new following about his babyhood....and they get angry when it is pointed out to them...Most people celebrate christmas because it is a tradition they grew up with...and it is not easy to break with tradition.....but christmas is not a tradition of Christ...

 

[JesusistheChrist]

actually I was being completely serious..NOT facetious.. I am truly appalled at how many dozens of holiday threads there are on here. We DO NOT need twenty million threads to debate the evils or goods of Christmas.. truth, yo..

"Twenty million threads"?

"We"?

Are you speaking on behalf of EVERYBODY now?

Again, different people WILLFULLY participate in different discussions for different reasons/motivations and it's not wise to speak on behalf of the whole as an individual. Personally, being a part of the aforementioned "we", although I find most of the discussions (90 something percent) surrounding the topic of "Christ Mass" to be...well, to be disappointing, to say the least, I'd still really like to sit down with people and discuss, FROM SCRIPTURE, when Christ was more than likely actually born. If you or others are not interested in the same type of discussion, then simply don't participate...but don't tell EVERYBODY what "we" do or don't "need".

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Well shoot my post wont let me edit.I just saw this post.We all get annoyed at times.Sorry for the post I cant delete grrrrr And nice to see we all have to apologize,cause I have lol

No worries.

I've learned, the hard way, not to post a response until I've read everything on the thread.

Anyhow, we're cool.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Well I think the problem for me is that I feel that those who dont celebrate are calling people who do sinners and not real Christians.And that those who dont are more Christlike.That would upset anyone.

In fairness to you, there are MANY, MANY reasons why I personally choose not to celebrate "Christ Mass" that you're presently unfamiliar with in that I haven't shared them with you. IOW, if you knew and understood what those reasons are (and they're all Christ centered reasons), then I suspect that you'd see me in a totally different light than you presently do. I'm really not your enemy...I'm really not. Why haven't I given full disclosure? Well, because these types of discussions get out of hand so quickly that I get disheartened and I basically throw my hands up in the air and say, "Why bother?" Anyhow, if we ever could all discuss this topic CIVILLY, then I think that we'd actually all come to a much closer place of agreement than we're (all of us...not just you and me) presently at.

 

[blue_ladybug]

"Twenty million threads"?

"We"?

Are you speaking on behalf of EVERYBODY now?

Again, different people WILLFULLY participate in different discussions for different reasons/motivations and it's not wise to speak on behalf of the whole as an individual. Personally, being a part of the aforementioned "we", although I find most of the discussions (90 something percent) surrounding the topic of "Christ Mass" to be...well, to be disappointing, to say the least, I'd still really like to sit down with people and discuss, FROM SCRIPTURE, when Christ was more than likely actually born. If you or others are not interested in the same type of discussion, then simply don't participate...but don't tell EVERYBODY what "we" do or don't "need".

nope, I am not speaking for EVERYONE here, but I do know that several people agree with me when I say that we dont need several of the same threads to debate the evils or goods of whatever holiday..it's repetitive..simply search for the topic first before creating a new one, because there are several on here regarding Christmas, Halloween, Easter, etc.. By all means, go debate with scripture, though I don't think the bible mentions specifically when Jesus was born. All I'm saying is, multiple threads on the same topic, and/or in the same forum, only clog it up and create endless debates and arguments. Right now, there are threads in several of the forums on here about Christmas. As a few other posters noted, it does get annoying and frustrating.. BTW, the word Christmas translates into "more Christ" in Spanish.. just some food for thought..

 

[JesusistheChrist]

nope, I am not speaking for EVERYONE here, but I do know that several people agree with me when I say that we dont need several of the same threads to debate the evils or goods of whatever holiday..it's repetitive..simply search for the topic first before creating a new one, because there are several on here regarding Christmas, Halloween, Easter, etc.. By all means, go debate with scripture, though I don't think the bible mentions specifically when Jesus was born. All I'm saying is, multiple threads on the same topic, and/or in the same forum, only clog it up and create endless debates and arguments. Right now, there are threads in several of the forums on here about Christmas. As a few other posters noted, it does get annoying and frustrating..

Hi, blue_ladybug.

I actually agree with you that there's no need for the repetitiveness and, quite frankly, I believe that one major underlying factor in these multiple threads all on the same topic is PRIDE. IOW, when somebody feels that their point isn't being accepted or received on one thread, they just start another one. That being said, however, I'm really a lot more interested and concerned about the constant use of such words as "irritating", "annoying" and even "frustrating" that I've been reading of late. Seriously, no thread should ever "irritate", "annoy" or "frustrate" any of us and if/when it does, then it's an indicator of something that is wrong WITHIN OUR OWN HEARTS. There's an old adage that says, "Pressure bursts pipes"...and we've got both a flood of water and a steam bath on some of these threads to give validity to the same. IOW, people are "bursting" all over the place and "blowing off steam" and FOR WHAT? For that which ought to be a simple conversation? Multiple threads or not, again, nobody is forcing anybody here to partake in the same. For those who feel the need to keep on starting new threads to get their point across which wasn't accepted elsewhere...well, that's on them. Just let them be. We're ultimately not accountable for anybody's actions but our own. Also, there's no need for any of us to keep on hammering our own points or perspectives across to others. Again, I personally believe that the same is a subtle form of PRIDE. We're called of God to "plant" and/or "water" and only God Himself can "give the increase". Anybody who feels the need to keep on hitting somebody over the head with the same thing, regardless of which side of the discussion/argument they're on, is really trying to force that which only God can give. Seriously, EVERYBODY, just calm down a bit. As it presently stands, people are so "irritated" that I doubt that they're even taking the time to consider what others are saying, but that instead they're preparing their response in their mind BEFORE they've even finished reading or even BEGUN CONSIDERING what others are saying.

As far as the actual timing of Christ's birth is concerned, I do believe that the Bible gives us ample evidence as to when it actually occurred and I've personally given at least an introduction to the same on more than one thread myself...and then run for cover.

BTW, the word Christmas translates into "more Christ" in Spanish.. just some food for thought..

I'm sorry, but no it doesn't. IOW, the "mas" part, although it means "more" in Spanish, isn't really "mas", but rather a shortened form of "mass". Here is the etymology of the word "Christmas":

Online Etymology Dictionary

Christmas (n.)
late Old English Cristes mæsse, from Christ (and retaining the original vowel sound) + mass (n.2).

Written as one word from mid-14c. As a verb from 1590s. Father Christmas first attested in a carol attributed to Richard Smart, Rector of Plymtree (Devon) from 1435-77. Christmas tree in modern sense first attested 1835 in American English, from German Weihnachtsbaum. Christmas cards first designed 1843, popular by 1860s. Christmas Eve is Middle English Cristenmesse Even (c.1300).

Here, then, is the definition for the "mass" part of "Christ Mass":

Online Etymology Dictionary

mass (n.2)
"Eucharistic service," Old English mæsse, from Vulgar Latin *messa "eucharistic service," literally "dismissal," from Late Latin missa "dismissal," fem. past participle of mittere "to let go, send" (see mission); probably so called from the concluding words of the service, Ite, missa est, "Go, (the prayer) has been sent," or "Go, it is the dismissal." Sometimes glossed in Old English as sendnes "send-ness."

 

[JesusistheChrist]

BTW, the word Christmas translates into "more Christ" in Spanish.. just some food for thought..

The actual Spanish word which is used to describe "Christ Mass" is "Navidad"...as in the popular song "Feliz Navidad". The same finds its etymology in the Latin word "nativitas"...

http://lema.rae.es/drae/?val=navidad

navidad.

(Del lat. nativĭtas, -ātis).

...and it's from the same Latin root word that we derive our English word "nativity":

Online Etymology Dictionary

nativity (n.)

c.1200, from Old French nativité "birth" (12c.), from Late Latin nativitatem (nominative nativitas) "birth," from Latin nativus "born, native" (see native (adj.)). Late Old English had nativiteð, from earlier Old French nativited.

I'm sorry, but in case you haven't yet noticed, I'm a bit into the origins of things...

lol.

 

[ELECT]

Matthew 15:9King James Version (KJV)

9 But in vain they do worship me, [COLOR=#0000FF !important]teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

[/COLOR]
1. The beginning of the Biblical year

A. Our modern day calendar starts with January which is the middle of winter. According to history, late March to early April is the first of the year, which is around springtime.

March (month), third month of the Gregorian year, according to the present calendar. March was the first month of the Roman year, named for Mars, the god of war. In England, until the Gregorian calendar was adopted in 1752, March was considered the first month with the legal year beginning on March 25. -MS Bookshelf 98

Months names and definition (according to the American Heritage Dictionary):

[TABLE="class: cms_table, width: 300"]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFCC00"]
[TD]Month[/TD]
[TD]Latin Name[/TD]
[TD]Definition[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]September[/TD]
[TD]septem[/TD]
[TD]Seven[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]October[/TD]
[TD]octo[/TD]
[TD]Eight[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]November[/TD]
[TD]novem[/TD]
[TD]Nine[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]December[/TD]
[TD]decem[/TD]
[TD]Ten[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



This table shows that December (the last month of our modern day calendar) is really the 10th month of the Biblical calendar. This will then make January and February the 2 last months of the year. March will then fall in the place of the first month of the year.

B. According to Biblical times, the first month given to the Children of Israel is called Abib or which is now called Nisan in the Hebrew Calendar. This month is a remembrance to them when God took them out of the land of Egypt and into the Promise Land. This they would have to do every year as the Passover.

Exodus 13:4
This day came ye out in the month Abib.

 

[ELECT]

Matthew 15:9King James Version (KJV)

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


2. Linking the births to the Old Testament

Now having an idea of when the [COLOR=#0000FF !important]new year begins, throughout the course of time, Christ was born at a certain time of the year. Christ was 6 months younger than John "The Baptist" (his cousin). John was conceived around the time when his father Zacharias completed his term in office as priest.[/COLOR]

Luke 1:5
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

This chart shows us how [COLOR=#0000FF !important]King David divided up the priest's office accordingly, starting from the beginning of the year to the end. Zacharias served the 8th term of the year, which was around the time of early July.[/COLOR]

Table 1: Order of High Priest's Offices and Courses assigned by King David

[TABLE="class: cms_table, width: 500"]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFCC00"]
[TD]Month[/TD]
[TD]Order[/TD]
[TD]1st to 2nd Week[/TD]
[TD]Order[/TD]
[TD]3rd to 4th week[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]March[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]Jehoiarib[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]April[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Jedaiah[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Harim[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]May[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Seorim[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Malchijah[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]June[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]Mijamin[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]Hakkoz[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]July[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]Abijah[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]Jeshua[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]August[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Shecaniah[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]Eliashib[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]September[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]Jakim[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]Huppah[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]October[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]Jeshebeab[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]Bilgah[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]November[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]Immer[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]Hezir[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]December[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]Aphses[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]Pethahiah[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]January[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Jehezekel[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]Jachin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]February[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]Gamul[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]Delaiah[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]March[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]Maaziah[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



These verses will define the table above.

I Chronicles 24:

 

[ELECT]

Matthew 15:9King James Version (KJV)

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

3. Christ's age difference to John the Baptist

The angel appeared unto Zacharias during his ministration to let him know his wife will bear him a son.

Luke 1:13
But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his [COLOR=#0000FF !important]name John.[/COLOR]

Elisabeth became pregnant after her husband Zacharias executed his term as priest. In the 6th month the Angel appeared unto Mary to also give her a message …

Luke 1:

 

[ELECT]

Matthew 15:9King James Version (KJV)

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

The calendar used in the Bible starts around Spring time which is in the time period of late March to early April.

Knowing when the Biblical year starts, we see how King David divided up the priests office during his time. When Zacharias became priest, he served in the stead or in the same month of Abija (or Abia - which is called in the New Testament). This month was around early July (being the late 4th month of the Bible calendar).

Mary became pregnant 6 months after John was conceived. This will make Jesus 6 months younger than John the Baptist. Six months after John was conceived will be around the time of early January (being the late 10th month in the Bible calendar).

A normal pregnancy will last for 9 months. Nine months after Jesus was conceived will be around the time of early October (being the late 7th month in the Bible calendar).

Our modern day calendar is not accurate because of so many modifications, but it gives us an idea of the time when JESUS was born, which was around October.

 

[KohenMatt]

For me, I would rather celebrate Jesus' birth closer to when it actually happened instead of following the traditions of men.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

For me, I would rather celebrate Jesus' birth closer to when it actually happened instead of following the traditions of men.

Same here.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

you speak as if christmas is ordained by God as some spiritual command...satan's plan is to ensnare people in the myth of christmas celebration as being an ordinance of God....Christmas is a time when pseudo christian unite(have fellowship) with the ungodly of the world..(a thing that God forbids)...in celebration..and they think they are doing god service....

Ephesians 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Although it is not written that we should celebrate the birth of Jesus, it is also not written that we should not remember the birth of Jesus. Even the angels rejoiced and the wise men brought gifts. If you can honor God during christmas I think it is all good. But of course it is better to honor Him everyday of our lives.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

For me, I would rather celebrate Jesus' birth closer to when it actually happened instead of following the traditions of men.

Time is not important...time works differently for God anyway...everyday is christmas day for me...

 

[ELECT]

Although it is not written that we should celebrate the birth of Jesus, it is also not written that we should not remember the birth of Jesus. Even the angels rejoiced and the wise men brought gifts. If you can honor God during christmas I think it is all good. But of course it is better to honor Him everyday of our lives.

if it is pagan it is pagan

 

[ELECT]

Time is not important...time works differently for God anyway...everyday is christmas day for me...

i humbly suggest that you study this verse , the bible is all about time

[h=1]Daniel 7:25King James Version (KJV)[/h]25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

View attachment 94188
if it is pagan it is pagan

Pagan or not I dont mind. There are more important things than proving that it is pagan like having the opportunity to share the gospel during.christmas.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

View attachment 94188
if it is pagan it is pagan

Lol! (I agree)

 

[JesusistheChrist]

i humbly suggest that you study this verse , the bible is all about time

Daniel 7:25King James Version (KJV)

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Are you serious? I was just about to say the same exact thing that you said...