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G
Gr8grace
Guest
Like most who believe those lies about the Catholic Church, like you do, look to Jack Chick and the Word of Faith preachers.
AND then there is the GREAT American TRIUNE IDOL "ME, MYSELF, and I".
Oh and what about that other American IDOL, "MY CAR". They skip Church to wash, wax, and polish her.
AND they that worship their automobiles even follow the pattern of Paganism in NAMING THE CARS:
Romans 1:21-23 (NKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God,
nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Professing to be wise, they became fools,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and changed the glory of the incorruptible God
into an image made like corruptible man { FORD (Henry Ford), Chrysler (Walter Chrysler), Porsche (Ferdinand Porsche), Honda (Soichiro Honda), Lamborghini (Ferruccio Lamborghini), etc.}
--and birds { Lark (Studebaker), Skylark (Buick), Thunderbird (Ford), Firebird (Pontiac), etc.}
and four-footed animals { Cougar (Mercury), Impala (Chevrolet), Mustang (Ford), Ram (Dodge), Rabbit (Volkswagen), etc. }
and creeping things. { Beetle (Volkswagen), Cobra (Shelby, Shelby-Ford), Spider/Spyder (Porsche), Viper (Dodge), etc.}
Its amazing how so many Catholics have NEVER read what their Popes say!
Have you read any of those quotes listed by Mec99 or you just mouthing off what YOU want to believe?
Why is it the Catholics REFUSE to read what their Popes write about???
If you even spend just one hour reading what the Popes have said, you would not be so quick to call God a liar!
Mystici Corporis
110. Venerable Brethren, may the Virgin Mother of God hear the prayers of Our paternal heart - which are yours also - and obtain for all a true love of the Church - she whose sinless soul was filled with the divine spirit of Jesus Christ above all other created souls, who "in the name of the whole human race" gave her consent "for a spiritual marriage between the Son of God and human nature."[216] Within her virginal womb Christ our Lord already bore the exalted title of Head of the Church; in a marvelous birth she brought Him forth as the source of all supernatural life, and presented Him newly born, as Prophet, King and Priest to those who, from among Jews and Gentiles, were the first to come to adore Him. Furthermore, her only Son, condescending to His mother's prayer in "Cana of Galilee," performed the miracle by which "his disciples believed in Him."[217] It was she, the second Eve, who, free from all sin, original or personal, and always more intimately united with her Son, offered Him on Golgotha to the Eternal Father for all the children of Adam, sin-stained by his unhappy fall, and her mother's rights and her mother's love were included in the holocaust. Thus she who, according to the flesh, was the mother of our Head, through the added title of pain and glory became, according to the Spirit, the mother of all His members. She it was through her powerful prayers obtained that the spirit of our Divine Redeemer, already given on the Cross, should be bestowed, accompanied by miraculous gifts, on the newly founded Church at Pentecost; and finally, bearing with courage and confidence the tremendous burden of her sorrows and desolation, she, truly the Queen of Martyrs, more than all the faithful "filled up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ...for His Body, which is the Church";[218] and she continues to have for the Mystical Body of Christ, born of the pierced Heart of the Savior,[219] the same motherly care and ardent love with which she cherished and fed the Infant Jesus in the crib.
God offered up His Son on the Cross, not Mary!
Its amazing VCO how foolish you are, and so sad how foolish you are for attacking God's True Children the Christians.
Have you read any of those quotes listed by Mec99 or you just mouthing off what YOU want to believe?
Why is it the Catholics REFUSE to read what their Popes write about???
If you even spend just one hour reading what the Popes have said, you would not be so quick to call God a liar!
Mystici Corporis
110. Venerable Brethren, may the Virgin Mother of God hear the prayers of Our paternal heart - which are yours also - and obtain for all a true love of the Church - she whose sinless soul was filled with the divine spirit of Jesus Christ above all other created souls, who "in the name of the whole human race" gave her consent "for a spiritual marriage between the Son of God and human nature."[216] Within her virginal womb Christ our Lord already bore the exalted title of Head of the Church; in a marvelous birth she brought Him forth as the source of all supernatural life, and presented Him newly born, as Prophet, King and Priest to those who, from among Jews and Gentiles, were the first to come to adore Him. Furthermore, her only Son, condescending to His mother's prayer in "Cana of Galilee," performed the miracle by which "his disciples believed in Him."[217] It was she, the second Eve, who, free from all sin, original or personal, and always more intimately united with her Son, offered Him on Golgotha to the Eternal Father for all the children of Adam, sin-stained by his unhappy fall, and her mother's rights and her mother's love were included in the holocaust. Thus she who, according to the flesh, was the mother of our Head, through the added title of pain and glory became, according to the Spirit, the mother of all His members. She it was through her powerful prayers obtained that the spirit of our Divine Redeemer, already given on the Cross, should be bestowed, accompanied by miraculous gifts, on the newly founded Church at Pentecost; and finally, bearing with courage and confidence the tremendous burden of her sorrows and desolation, she, truly the Queen of Martyrs, more than all the faithful "filled up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ...for His Body, which is the Church";[218] and she continues to have for the Mystical Body of Christ, born of the pierced Heart of the Savior,[219] the same motherly care and ardent love with which she cherished and fed the Infant Jesus in the crib.
God offered up His Son on the Cross, not Mary!
Its amazing VCO how foolish you are, and so sad how foolish you are for attacking God's True Children the Christians.
That is disturbing theology. Christ is sufficient. Mariology is contrary to the Word of God.
Jesus said, "I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham."
☝t<><
The Pope is a human being who is capable of making mistakes, just like the rest of us mortals. BUT you guys come across as if you think you are as infallible as God Almighty, judging, AND passing sentence upon YOUR PERCEPTION of what YOU THINK the Catholics believe. Their Catechism IS THEIR DOCTRINAL STATEMENT OF FAITH, and it says they are to WORSHIP ONLY GOD. You are laying down the very YARD STICK that our LORD will use to measure your own errors in interpretation and understanding:
Matthew 7:1-2 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]“Do not judge, so that you won’t be judged.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For with the judgment you use, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
And I personally THINK you will have a GREAT DEAL of difficulty explaining why you DO NOT THINK these verses are talking about YOUR attitude towards the Catholics.
Galatians 5:19-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I tell you about these things in advance—as I told you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Proverbs 10:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.
Proverbs 6:16-19 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] These six things the LORD hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren.
Mark 9:38-40 (NKJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] Now John answered Him, saying, "Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us."
[SUP]39 [/SUP] But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me.
[SUP]40 [/SUP] "For he who is not against us is on our side.
I now seriously suggest you repent of hatred and the discord you personally have been sowing about the Catholics.
I most certainly show love for the brethren, which I know includes the Catholics.
You and those who believe like you do, claim to be the "God's True Children the Christians", but the fruit you exhibit, tells me that you are most likely the opposite:
Matthew 7:15-20 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
Galatians 5:22-25 (NKJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
How much of the GOOD FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT HAVE YOU SHOWN TOWARDS THE CATHOLICS?
No, I have NOT JUDGING YOU, but I am inspecting your FRUIT, and the only FRUIT I SEE, I already mentioned in Gal. 5:19-21 above.
1 John 3:14-15 (NKJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
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Papal Infallibility: Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error "When, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church." As I have already a couple of times stated, the ex cathedra dogmas cannot be rejected by Roman Catholics, or they face rejection by the Roman Catholic Church. Infallibility also belongs to the body of bishops as a whole, when, in doctrinal unity with the pope, they solemnly teach a doctrine as true, since they are teachers and judges of faith and morals for the universal Church. Their definitions must then be adhered to with the submission of faith. (Lumen Gentium 25)
Okay, but we know better. So there is errors in Catholic beliefs, and since we KNOW men are Fallible; we also know that EVERY Church and Christian is LESS THAN PERFECT. My bewilderment is HOW ON EARTH can any Trinity Believing Christian, POINT the finger at ANY OTHER Trinity Believing Christian Church, and SAY, "They are all going to Hell, because they got some things WRONG!"
Is that NOT THE SAME AS:
Luke 18:10-14 (ESV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Romans 12:3 (ASV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For I say, through the grace that was given me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think as to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to each man a measure of faith.
I personally think their are some big errors in Adventist Doctrine, Pentecostal Doctrine, Charismatic Doctrine, Methodist Doctrine, Episcopal Doctrine, Presbyterian Doctrine, Lutheran Doctrine, Catholic Doctrine, etc. HOWEVER, NEVER will I CONSIDER THEM NOT MY BRETHREN, and I certainly will LOVE them for being my Christian Brother or Sister. So we all got some things wrong, and we can have a BIG LAUGH about it, when we get to Heaven.
UNTIL THEN, we NEED to remember that Denominational Bigotry and Bickering IS THE WORK OF THE DEVIL.
What Baffles me, is WHY some people, especially the Charismatics, LOVE to HATE the Catholics, when they KNOW HATE IS EVIL and OF THE DEVIL.
T
Tintin
Guest
I don't agree with some Catholic beliefs and practices, but I don't hate or dislike them. Some of my good friends are Catholic.
G
Gr8grace
Guest
This is not love. Love would look beyond the things that frustrate us and we would operate from a impersonal position.
If we read everything that VCO and mwc68 write and not just the things we think are wrong..........they are brothers in Christ and should be dealt with from that perspective.
From what I have read Ken, I agree with most of what you post when it comes to doctrine. But none of the personal stuff and assumptions.
What good does it do if I would of responded like this to you?.............
Its amazing Ken how foolish you are, And so sad how foolish you are that you attack VCO and He is a brother in Christ.
I see no love in the Catholic Church for the True Christians, all I see is HATRED for the very Word of God we True Christians try to bring to the Catholics!
We give then Pearls of Truth and they trample on them and teach their lies from Satan.
Where is the Love these Catholics claim they have?
I do not see any Love!
All I see is HATE for the Words of God and HATE against us True Children of God!
Millions of innocent Christians have been murdered by the Catholic Church in the name of their gods.
We give then Pearls of Truth and they trample on them and teach their lies from Satan.
Where is the Love these Catholics claim they have?
I do not see any Love!
All I see is HATE for the Words of God and HATE against us True Children of God!
Millions of innocent Christians have been murdered by the Catholic Church in the name of their gods.
What we True Christians believe comes directly from the Holy Spirit. What the Catholic believes comes directly from the Catholic Church.
If the Popes can make mistakes like you claim VCO, they why do you Catholics accept from the Catholic Church the teaching that Mary was without sin?
Romans 3:9
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
Romans 3:23 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Since you do accept the fact the Catholic Church does make mistakes, why then do you still teach Mary was without sin when clearly God says she was a sinner???
Your mouth says one thing but your Heart says something entirety different.
If the Popes can make mistakes like you claim VCO, they why do you Catholics accept from the Catholic Church the teaching that Mary was without sin?
Romans 3:9
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
Romans 3:23 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Since you do accept the fact the Catholic Church does make mistakes, why then do you still teach Mary was without sin when clearly God says she was a sinner???
Your mouth says one thing but your Heart says something entirety different.
G
Gr8grace
Guest
Ken, both VCO and mwc68 have told us countless times that they don't personally do this. I sat in a church for 8 years as a saved man and had no clue what that church actually believed. And It was not my family and friends that were calling me an idiot that finally woke me up.
If the Catechism says we are to worship God only, then why do you Catholics pray the Rosary to Mary?
You do know VCO, that which you pray to is your God?
Since you claim you only Worship God then why does the Catholics bow down to the statues of Mary in Worship?
Like I said, your mouth says one thing but your Heart and actions say something totally different.
You do know VCO, that which you pray to is your God?
Since you claim you only Worship God then why does the Catholics bow down to the statues of Mary in Worship?
Like I said, your mouth says one thing but your Heart and actions say something totally different.
G
Gr8grace
Guest
G
Gr8grace
Guest
Proverbs 6:16-19
[SUP]16 [/SUP] These six things the LORD hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren.
1. A lying tongue, saying Mary was without sin IS a lying tongue!
2. Hands that shed innocent blood, Christians put to death by the Catholic Church for just reading the Bible!
3. A false witness who speaks lies, teaching that Mary was without sin!
Before you point your finger at us VCO you really need to read the Scriptures and accept the Truths from God and not the lies of the Catholic Church.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] These six things the LORD hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren.
1. A lying tongue, saying Mary was without sin IS a lying tongue!
2. Hands that shed innocent blood, Christians put to death by the Catholic Church for just reading the Bible!
3. A false witness who speaks lies, teaching that Mary was without sin!
Before you point your finger at us VCO you really need to read the Scriptures and accept the Truths from God and not the lies of the Catholic Church.
Matthew 6:7
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.
When you pray do NOT keep on repeating over and over again the Hail Mary because it is NOT a prayer to God!
This is how we are to Pray!
Matthew 6:9-13
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Give us this day our daily bread.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.
We are NOT to pray to Mary because it is Idolatry!
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.
When you pray do NOT keep on repeating over and over again the Hail Mary because it is NOT a prayer to God!
This is how we are to Pray!
Matthew 6:9-13
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Give us this day our daily bread.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.
We are NOT to pray to Mary because it is Idolatry!