Do you really believe in Jesus?

Omegatime · Jan 28, 2022

Your lack of knowledge astounds me. This prayer is for the jews living in the tribulation . Does God lead anyone into temptation? The translaters intentional left out the definte article. What it says is--Lead us not into "the" temptation. which changes the meaning to a trial or testing as found in many bibles. And keep us from evil is can also mean evil one. So I am telling you ths---

Lead us not into the tribulation and keep us from the evil one.

The gospels are directed mostly to the jewish people during the tribulation period.

Mii · Jan 28, 2022

christianbeliever144 said:

Perhaps I'll check it out later...I think there's a sizable amount of people here (though if a majority/minority I cannot tell) who consider church as a resource...not the end all be all of a walk with God. If a pastor says something "iffy" they question it.

I've heard many times in sermons how people get their faith from another person... "My pastor said..." but this is just a new believer thing. I'd be pretty surprised if it was common for people to say that well into development.

perhaps say "I like what he said because..." and certainly a pastor is there to feed the sheep so it is not unreasonable to be fed by messages. Or are you saying something different where churches become like cults?

Pilgrimshope · Jan 28, 2022

Omegatime said:

yeah we’re just called to share the gospel Jesus is the teacher and as we hear and believe we learn and grow and bear more and more fruit .

you don’t demand a harvest of mature fruit from a nursery where plants are just. Getting rooted. We have to allow for the gospel we share to sink in and let God make the growth happen believers will hear and believe and follow along non believers will reject and mock and offer alternatives

to just share the true story of Jesus Christ as presented in the gospel will save believers

christianbeliever144 · Jan 28, 2022

Mii said:

Actually, since you asked

, I have a lot to say about the churches subject in particular. Churches are misleading in my opinion:

Churches are businesses. Each church’s objective is to become the biggest church with the largest number of members.

Seminary college graduates find good paying jobs there, instead of finding truths like the real meaning of the daily Bread. Are they seeking God in those colleges? I doubt it. Many church leaders today are millionaires. This is usually the graduates' objective.

They all cater to people. It’s about what people like to hear. None are truly seeking God.

Their sermons are always the safe and pleasant ones that attract people. They never preach about those “politically incorrect” parts of the Bible that may bother people.

They all adopted a simple message: "all you have to do is declare you believe in Jesus, and you are saved for eternity. And you don’t have to do anything else; nothing, nothing at all. Pray the Lord’s Prayer daily? No, nothing at all."

Of course, people love this message. And they’ll definitely come to church every Sunday and tithe.

But the reality is, churches only preached off of a couple of verses that say that and ignored thousands of pages in the bible that elaborated about those verses. While those verses are true, a crucial element is missing - our daily commitment to God exhibited in us seeking God and His Righteousness. Otherwise, we’re not truthful about our claim of believing.
Every verse in the Bible that says in one sentence something like "believe in Jesus and you're saved...", is meant as a high-level statement. Thousands of other verses clearly elaborate on how to do that.

How do we do that?
- By seeking God: through reading the Bible (or hearing).
- By seeking His Righteousness: through reciting the Lord’s Prayer daily. And meaning it correctly: the daily Bread is the body of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. Why daily? Because Jesus said so. You don’t have to chew on actual bread like some churches advise. You can receive God’s bread of life by genuinely saying the Lord’s Prayer.
Is that “ceremonial law”? No. Is it “works”? No. Anything there to boast about as personal accomplishments towards own salvation? No.

Why then aren’t churches preaching this about the true meaning of the "daily Bread"? It’s because:
- It doesn’t fit their mold of “declare it once and you’re done”.
- It’s too much work for people; people may leave that church and go tithe elsewhere.

Request from your church to preach this truth correctly. Be loyal to God, not to your church denomination, or to your favorite preacher. Although I'm all for abolishing all denominations and doing your own Bible study, but if a church commits to truly seeking God always and finding new truths/interpretations and teaching them, then I'll go to that church.

No one can claim they have all the answers to the Bible questions. If anyone says that, start running in the other direction. Our God is not a simple One to be figured-out. So many truths and interpretations are yet to come. We just have to keep seeking as He instructed. And I wish churches would stop telling people "that's it you're born again, go on your way."

I encourage you to get your Bible facts from the Bible, not from the church, or other books or movies about the Bible. They all have their agendas; modifying the scripture to fit their plan. All it takes is a small modification, and you're going down a completely different path than God intended. Do your own reading; get it from the source. This is how we seek God.

There are some nice Bible apps today that offer audio. You can install it on your smart device. And listen to the Bible (example when driving). Available in many versions. My favorites are CSB and NIV. Because they’re in plain English so we can easily understand.

Forget "old English". It is NOT the language of the Bible. Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek are the original languages of the Bible. Why are there churches today still teaching "old English" language? I call that the work of the devil. This is how you get the young generations who speak plain English to completely miss the Bible teaching. It is about getting the meaning of the scriptures to the people. Not about fake formalities like "use old English"...

What is your objective? Be loyal to your church and your ancestors choices even if wrong? Or find God and get into His heaven in the next age?

Mii · Jan 28, 2022

Interestingly that's the only article I clicked on when I glanced at the site. I'll take a closer look later probably but before I proceed...

I presume you are using words like "all" and "everybody" and "churches" as a device but personally I don't feel like it's helpful to those that are NOT in the categories you are calling out and I've learned to say "most all" "almost everybody" "most churches" etc. etc.

Thoughts?

Rhomphaeam · Jan 28, 2022

christianbeliever144 said:

From your website:

Why is there a Calvinist church today? It needs to be abolished from the face of the earth. It’s only there to collect donations, and to keep contributing to the confusion where people may wrongly categorize themselves as inside that “club” our outside of it.

So here is the good news - I know a reformed Calvinist church that is a registered place of worship and doesn't even have a collection plate. No paid ministers. No bank account and money is a forbidden subject in the church. But the church is fully paid up - no mortgage and no debt. Imagine that? P.S we just love charismatics and pentecostals and always invite them to demonstrate their spiritual prowess by showing the children every third Sunday of the month how to fly from the 1st floor windows. The kids love it.

I guess you being a non denominational believer means you can visit and are unlikely to find yourself flying with the pigeons that circles the tower of doom.

Welcome to the forum. God bless.

christianbeliever144 · Jan 28, 2022

Rhomphaeam said:

Thank you Rhomphaeam.
I have to ask, is that your actual picture? or a stock picture of a wise-looking old man?

Just kidding.
Ok, yes that is original. I have not heard of such a church. It is encouraging, although Calvinist. "Reformed", does that mean different doctrine than the traditional Calvinist?
And yes I am willing to visit. But my view will always be: God would not initiate it from zero, by programming us to come to Him. That would make us robots, and Him a very unlike-the-Bible God. He has to sense some interest from us, then help us converge along the way in life. This is exactly what this parable means, Matthew 13:12: "Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them."
It really all comes down to this. The starting point. Is it us accepting His grace? Or Him picking and choosing mysteriously, then programming us against our will? Well I doubt it's the second. That is so inconsistent with the God of the Bible. If we keep reading the whole scripture we'll see clearly. The God of the Calvinists is not the God of the Bible.

Blain · Jan 28, 2022

I understand that you are trying to show that there is a difference between aChristian by title and a Christian by heart I just think it may have off a bit forward. People don't like others coming off as if they know what it means to be saved and others don't acting as if they hold the answer while the rest of are ignorant, that was not your intent but that is how it can come across when you use words like you to describe things in your explanation.

Now rather than coming in as you did I prefer to explain the differences in those who truly are believers and those who are not leaving everyone to read and ponder it for themselves not p;ointing to anyone just explaining the different aspects each type of believers have this way no one gets offended I don't come off as high and mighty and everyone is left to their own thoughts on the matter
For instance I often refer to the differences between those who play church and those who live in the intimacy of the relationship between them and God I don't point out anyone or speak of anyone I just explain the different aspects and the different results each type of believer has.

christianbeliever144 · Jan 28, 2022

Omegatime said:

Hello Omegatime,
No need to antagonize us. We are all learning by reading the Bible. And no one can claim to know everything. We just have to be patient with each other as we learn.
Yes I agree with your interpretation. But don't think it is that big of a impact on people saying the prayer. Because the main focus of the prayer is (1) Give due Worship to God in the first part of it, (2) then ask for the promised redemption from sins through the body of Jesus (the daily bread), and (3) we also forgive others. (4) The rest of it is about keeping us connected with God, for when we veer of and become atheists, he can no longer forgive us, because we've cut the cord at that point.

Lovingly,
Christian Believer

Rhomphaeam · Jan 28, 2022

christianbeliever144 said:

I have to tell you that it really is myself in the photograph. No kidding.

The reason I responded to your comment was chiefly because the question you raise in generality is the very same question I asked the Father when I first got saved. I ask why there were so many divisions in the church. And I was thinking about the denominational divisions when I asked. So its a good question from where I am sitting.

As to the Reformed Calvinist tag in the church in its registration in the Non Conformist register - that is really to do with the stark doctrines that Calvin brought out to firm up the Reformed doctrines that began with others - giving rise to a position of some things that make it impossible for the charismatic believer to bear with easily - and thus to keep them out of the church. Sounds harsh doesn't it? I bore with the madness and implausibility of charismatic mania for 35 years and witnessed a mountain of abuse and harm across every theatre of investigation that I undertook with precision to hold those to account who were harmful and would continue in their harm if the Lord did not arrest their activities. He did and some paid with their lives because they would not be warned that the Father will not endlessly wink at their abusive and deceptive predications borne out of emotional flesh and then harsh and judgemental attitudes of those who were crying out in anger because they came to see that they were being spiritually abused. An abuse that cost men, women and children everything - event their faith in many instances. I guess you could say that no one who knows me is inclined to being humorous - even when I can make light of things for an effect.

Its just that simple.

I have no wish to discuss Calvinism.

Neither does it concern me what is posted as a claim to Calvinism. But I could say that Calvin was a timid man compared to John Knox - which is the school of Calvinism I herald from. The Lord knows.

Lastly, brother, the cries that the Father will answer in this day in which we live are the many cries that He hears from young adults and children who have been defrauded of their rightful inheritance in Christ and have fallen into sin because they were stumbled and angered by their pastors and elders and those they exposed them to who were more concerned for a name and a collection plate than for the souls and bodies of men, women and children. I laboured for 35 years showing mercy and being generous and trying to prophetically warn some pastors and their para church groups just what would come out of their mistaken use of a claim to the love of God, a harsh rod of correction and then a running away in an accusatory spirit utilising false prophecy to cover that they knew what was said to them in private by myself when they blamed those they were charged to shepherd. So three years ago the Lord finally closed the door and I began to tear down their harmful effects and even then showed mercy and put myself in the way of harm and they were more concerned by my sudden turning away - than the evidence I presented to demonstrate their harm.

I hope that isn't to stark, brother? You say that all Calvinists denominations should be wiped off the face of the earth. No chance of that.

christianbeliever144 · Jan 28, 2022

Rhomphaeam said:

I have to tell you that it really is myself in the photograph. No kidding.

The reason I responded to your comment was chiefly because the question you raise in generality is the very same question I asked the Father when I first got saved. I ask why there were so many divisions in the church. And I was thinking about the denominational divisions when I asked. So its a good question from where I am sitting.

As to the Reformed Calvinist tag in the church in its registration in the Non Conformist register - that is really to do with the stark doctrines that Calvin brought out to firm up the Reformed doctrines that began with others - giving rise to a position of some things that make it impossible for the charismatic believer to bear with easily - and thus to keep them out of the church. Sounds harsh doesn't it? I bore with the madness and implausibility of charismatic mania for 35 years and witnessed a mountain of abuse and harm across every theatre of investigation that I undertook with precision to hold those to account who were harmful and would continue in their harm if the Lord did not arrest their activities. He did and some paid with their lives because they would not be warned that the Father will not endlessly wink at their abusive and deceptive predications borne out of emotional flesh and then harsh and judgemental attitudes of those who were crying out in anger because they came to see that they were being spiritually abused. An abuse that cost men, women and children everything - event their faith in many instances. I guess you could say that no one who knows me is inclined to being humorous - even when I can make light of things for an effect.

Its just that simple.

I have no wish to discuss Calvinism.

Neither does it concern me what is posted as a claim to Calvinism. But I could say that Calvin was a timid man compared to John Knox - which is the school of Calvinism I herald from. The Lord knows.

Lastly, brother, the cries that the Father will answer in this day in which we live are the many cries that He hears from young adults and children who have been defrauded of their rightful inheritance in Christ and have fallen into sin because they were stumbled and angered by their pastors and elders and those they exposed them to who were more concerned for a name and a collection plate than for the souls and bodies of men, women and children. I laboured for 35 years showing mercy and being generous and trying to prophetically warn some pastors and their para church groups just what would come out of their mistaken use of a claim to the love of God, a harsh rod of correction and then a running away in an accusatory spirit utilising false prophecy to cover that they knew what was said to them in private by myself when they blamed those they were charged to shepherd. So three years ago the Lord finally closed the door and I began to tear down their harmful effects and even then showed mercy and put myself in the way of harm and they were more concerned by my sudden turning away - than the evidence I presented to demonstrate their harm.

I hope that isn't to stark, brother? You say that all Calvinists denominations should be wiped off the face of the earth. No chance of that.

Thank you for that

Okay so we kind'a agree to disagree. I do have my own website with more rebellious Christian teaching if you're interested: https://www.realbiblestudy.org/

Rhomphaeam · Jan 28, 2022

christianbeliever144 said:

Yes - as I said brother, I already quoted it @#26. Better to stay focused when you advise others that:

Why is there a Calvinist church today? It needs to be abolished from the face of the earth. It’s only there to collect donations, and to keep contributing to the confusion where people may wrongly categorize themselves as inside that “club” our outside of it.

I will read it in its entirety over the next few days. God Bless.

Nehemiah6 · Jan 28, 2022

Rhomphaeam said:

And all this time I though that Methuselah had finally shown up on CC!

ResidentAlien · Jan 28, 2022

christianbeliever144 said:

You had me till you got here. I'm sorry but it does sound a little like boasting to me.

This kind of talk reminds me of virtually every cult leader out there: "Listen to me, stick with me. I'm knowledgeable, you're ignorant. I have the keys, my teaching can put you on the right road. I'm your savior, I've come to save you."

"Purge the dross from the silver, and material for a vessel comes forth for the silversmith."—Proverbs 25:4

Wansvic · Jan 30, 2022

CherieR said:

Jesus became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him. Heb. 5:9

Evmur · Jan 30, 2022

christianbeliever144 said:

I believe it is the people you seem to be criticising who have made America what she is [still is] in the world today.

Jesus loves His church ... so should we.

Evmur · Jan 30, 2022

christianbeliever144 said:

I think you are mistaken sir. There is a whole Bible with thousands of pages that elaborate on these 2 verses.
Example, “you will know them by their fruit” (Matthew 7:16)
What burden? Asking to pray the Lord's Prayer "daily" as Jesus instructed, is a burden?
Shame on you actually, for interfering with the Lord's work through me. To bring believers to the right path. You did not have to reply. Look closer at my other post titled: "The Lord's Prayer Misunderstood". And here: https://www.realbiblestudy.org/. Years of Bible study went into this.
Churches who teach you what you said, are the problem in this world. They produced generations of lazy Christians, who may or may not be saved.

Are you qualified to judge God's people?

Evmur · Jan 30, 2022

JStates said:

You say you were born again in 2016, well praise the Lord. Why should we disbelieve you? we do believe you, we accept you as God has accepted you.

Now let's extend the same love and acceptance to ALL who claim to be born again. Encourage them, teach them, build them up, exhort them ...don't let's be labelling them hypocrites.

We don't always know the hard times folks are having.

JStates · Jan 30, 2022

Evmur said:

That's very fair, Evmur. I will admit that I - like many people this days - sometimes unintentionally overstate things in the heat of the conversation.

Perhaps it would be better to use the word "inconsistent" rather than hypocrite. I think most of us are subject to some unconscious inconsistencies in thought or behavior.

Thank you for the reminder to be more gracious, brother!

christianbeliever144 · Feb 6, 2022

Evmur said:

@Evmur
I have expanded on my original statement significantly. And added more clarification of my intentions. No sir, no cult, no hidden motives, no personal agenda. The info I added are here, and here.

Do you really believe in Jesus?

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