Do you support female pastors?

[charisenexcelcis]

...well this is even funnier!!
I don't know greatkraw, yet the post sounded like something pastor Hagee would say.
Don't you think?

I'm not sure that Greatkraw will appreciate the humor.

 

[Chattingovercoffee43wv]

Paul in the bible says women are to remain quiet in the church. Although I belong to a church that have female pastors, I think the original intent was for men to lead the congregation.

Paul means that woman shouldn't gossip in church while the preachers speaking,thats all it is.
there's nothing in the bible that condemns female ministers.Joyce meyer is a strong example of a warrior for Christ.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Cindy Wimbur is another good example of a female pastor whose ministry has born good fruit.

 

[Sharp]

Paul means that woman shouldn't gossip in church while the preachers speaking,thats all it is.
there's nothing in the bible that condemns female ministers.Joyce meyer is a strong example of a warrior for Christ.

come on dude......thats soft as.......

 

[Chattingovercoffee43wv]

come on dude......thats soft as.......

How is it "soft as" care to explain your reasoning?

 

[Brianaj]

I do not think a woman should be the head pastor over a church. She can be a pastor over like a women's ministry to where she is still under a man. No woman holds a place over a man it just doesn't work like that...I think it's unbibical.

 

[Chattingovercoffee43wv]

come on dude......thats soft as.......

Timothy 3 vs 11 - Women Must likewise be dignified,not malicious gossips,but temperate,faithful in all things.


Another thing you must realise is, Paul was writing a personal letter to timothy....
Stating his personal opinions as we see in 1 Timothy vs 12 - " I" <----- see I... "I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man,but to remain silent"

Jesus never said that..... It's simply pauls preference.
He's not commanding us to do likewise....

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

Timothy 3 vs 11 - Women Must likewise be dignified,not malicious gossips,but temperate,faithful in all things.


Another thing you must realise is, Paul was writing a personal letter to timothy....
Stating his personal opinions as we see in 1 Timothy vs 12 - " I <----- see I... "I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man,but to remain silent.

Jesus never said that..... It's simply pauls preference.
He's not commanding us to do likewise.....

I like you already

p.s. dont mind sharp he would rather women be wiped off the face of the planet

 

[superdave5221]

Timothy 3 vs 11 - Women Must likewise be dignified,not malicious gossips,but temperate,faithful in all things.


Another thing you must realise is, Paul was writing a personal letter to timothy....
Stating his personal opinions as we see in 1 Timothy vs 12 - " I" <----- see I... "I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man,but to remain silent"

Jesus never said that..... It's simply pauls preference.
He's not commanding us to do likewise....

Paul almost always gives instructions according to the will of the Lord. In those rare instances where he gives instructions according to his own will, he makes it VERY CLEAR that he is speaking for himself, and not for God. The following verses are an example.

1 Cor 7: 10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the LORD): A wife must not separate from her husband.http://christianchat.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-11 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband.http://christianchat.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-12 And a husband must not divorce his wife. 12 To the rest I say this (I, not the LORD):http://christianchat.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-13 If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her.

Do not for one instance think that man is wiser than God, in saying that God is not fair, so lets impose a more equal, man made system on God. God loves women and men equally. But His justice and love are beyond the understanding of man.

 

[superdave5221]

P.S. to #169 post above.

I should have said at the end:

But the full measure of His justice and love are beyond the understanding of man. God has blessed us with the ability to know love and mercy, as well as justice, but not to know them perfectly as He does.

 

[phil36]

Timothy 3 vs 11 - Women Must likewise be dignified,not malicious gossips,but temperate,faithful in all things.


Another thing you must realise is, Paul was writing a personal letter to timothy....
Stating his personal opinions as we see in 1 Timothy vs 12 - " I" <----- see I... "I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man,but to remain silent"

Jesus never said that..... It's simply pauls preference.
He's not commanding us to do likewise....

So which parts of Paul have you decided to take as authoritative? Might I suggest that it would be anything that does not go against feminism or a post modern mindset? and, If Paul says soemthing Jesus never said (what we have written in the Gospels) are we to discount it? as it may just be Pauls preference?

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.

GB

Phil

 

[zone]

For I am the LORD, I change no. Malachi 3:6a

If it was in the early church, and it clearly says in I corinthians 14 that it is a command that women keep silent in the churches: and also that God don't change: so I guess that is something to think about.

back in the day, men on one side, women on the other: formula for disaster since:

women TALK! hahah. and talk and talk and talk (i know, i am one).
they talk and gossip and stuff, men less.

Paul said the woman should wait til she gets home with her husband to ask questions.

...........

that said, regarding the assembling for services, i don't believe women should be behind the pulpit, nor elders or deacons. and frankly, i wouldn't want to have to answer to the Lord as a pastor: that's the men's responsibility. Judgment begins at the house of God, we know. YIKES!

regarding DISCUSSIONS and informal assembly and missions:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Paul dealt with Priscilla as an equal. he was not ashamed to name her, and even at times to place her name before her husband's or singularly.

just my 2 pence worth
z

 

[tryingtofindhim]

I don't think that women were seen as inferior, at least in Jewish society. That may have been the case among the pagans. It's just that men and women were seen as having different, but distinct roles in the family and society. If you read scripture without the feminist bias that pervades our society, you will see that God has ordained specific roles for women and men in the family, and in church government. It is not wise to heed counsil that puts one at odds with God's will.

Is it possible that the blurring of traditional gender roles in the marriage is a major contributor to the 50% + divorce rate in western society?

Yah, you are very right, but I believe that women had too many restrictions on them. It might be possible the role of men and women is a lot different now. Part of it is good for women to be able to work where and when and all that jazz but the feminist movement and women being controlling their husband is not good. That just may be why divorce is rising.

 

[Lifelike]

back in the day, men on one side, women on the other: formula for disaster since:

women TALK! hahah. and talk and talk and talk (i know, i am one).
they talk and gossip and stuff, men less.

Paul said the woman should wait til she gets home with her husband to ask questions.

...........

that said, regarding the assembling for services, i don't believe women should be behind the pulpit, nor elders or deacons. and frankly, i wouldn't want to have to answer to the Lord as a pastor: that's the men's responsibility. Judgment begins at the house of God, we know. YIKES!

regarding DISCUSSIONS and informal assembly and missions:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Paul dealt with Priscilla as an equal. he was not ashamed to name her, and even at times to place her name before her husband's or singularly.

just my 2 pence worth
z

I have experienced this personally! I have a friend, and she's great, but if im sitting next to her in church and the pastor says something that she doesnt understand she asks me what the preacher means and tries to go on a bunny trial to figure it out. As soon as she asks me i stop listening to what the preacher is say and am focused on her, and have had to say quickly what was meant or tell her to keep listening so that i can quickly focus back on the preacher so i dont miss way more, than my friend intially missed and therefore questioned! Chaotic isnt it. Now imagine that 50 fold - men on one side, woman on the other, my God! no wonder Paul had to address it because it brought disorder - and we all know Apostles are about order! A lot of Pauls teachings were to bring practical order to meetings and relationships because we are meant to be ONE and unified, not disorderly and segregated.

This whole topic is a great topic, but i personally believe just like slavery has been abolished (the bible condones slavery by the way - but there are instructions to the culture of that time that were disigned to keep it Godly and in order) just like slavery, this inequality between men and women is going to be abolished from the body of Christ. I had a friend (and minister) say to me recently that when God created adam and eve, he first created them in the spirit, in the likeness of God, he made them male and female - Gods image is male AND female, he made them equal in His image - and then he fashioned their bodies and breathed his life into them, and assigned function. Now in Christ we are neither male nor female, jew or greek, and Offices and callings are spiritual not carnal and not fleshly. When I look at an Apostle, i dont see male or female, flesh or bone, i see a spiritual being, clothed in power and authority, which just happens to be housed in a natural body which has no bearing on the call or nature of the gifting which is spiritual.

 

[zone]

Putting limitations on women as preachers is not to put them down but to protect them. Feminists and alike always question Paul over this and prefer to skip over what he says. The man may have been a bachelor but God filled him with the Holy Spirit so if he says something that we as modern westerners dont like then we need to figure out why he wrote it and under what context and most importantly of all how does it apply to us. We cant take some laws - keep them and ignore the other stuff esp if its from the same writer such as Paul.

Paul frowned on women becomming elders not preachers. Women can be gifted to be brilliant teachers and we know that requires a bit of theological training and preaching. But being an elder is a headship position and is all to do with spiritual warfare. Paul was a huge authority on spiritual warfare and was proactive in instructing the church how to fight this power. A common thing with Satan is this: The bigger the impact you are doing for Gods kingdom the bigger the threat you are to him. Eldership is a huge honour but also a huge responsibility and encompasses many sacrifices and trials. God created man to be the head of his own family because he was made in Gods likeness as a warrior. Woman was created to be celebrated by providing and sustaining life. Men are to protect that. This is why Satan targeted Eve, not Adam. If he had picked on Adam he would have been met with force and would have had less chance to succeed. This is not to say that women are weak in a derogatory manner. Im just saying that women in leadership positions will have to deal with the spiritual hurts that go with the job. Satan is not gentler in his attack on women just because we are women. I tend to think he's worse. Men are made to protect us. If we take an elder position who are we to then lovingly submit to other than God? Who will guide and protect us when Satan attacks?

Paul was not sexist. He was just looking out for women. Hes just as hard on men too you know - its a two way street.

i'm a woman, and i couldn't agree more!
well done!
just look at the wreckage of modern culture.

 

[mercy_music]

Paul in the bible says women are to remain quiet in the church. Although I belong to a church that have female pastors, I think the original intent was for men to lead the congregation.

It's God's design that a man should take the lead. As man is the head of the family, so also in church.

 

[Lifelike]

Putting limitations on women as preachers is not to put them down but to protect them. Feminists and alike always question Paul over this and prefer to skip over what he says. The man may have been a bachelor but God filled him with the Holy Spirit so if he says something that we as modern westerners dont like then we need to figure out why he wrote it and under what context and most importantly of all how does it apply to us. We cant take some laws - keep them and ignore the other stuff esp if its from the same writer such as Paul.

Paul frowned on women becomming elders not preachers. Women can be gifted to be brilliant teachers and we know that requires a bit of theological training and preaching. But being an elder is a headship position and is all to do with spiritual warfare. Paul was a huge authority on spiritual warfare and was proactive in instructing the church how to fight this power. A common thing with Satan is this: The bigger the impact you are doing for Gods kingdom the bigger the threat you are to him. Eldership is a huge honour but also a huge responsibility and encompasses many sacrifices and trials. God created 1/ man to be the head of his own family because he was made in Gods likeness as a warrior. Woman was created to be celebrated by providing and sustaining life. Men are to protect that. This is why Satan targeted Eve, not Adam. If he had picked on Adam he would have been met with force and would have had less chance to succeed. This is not to say that women are weak in a derogatory manner. 2/ Im just saying that women in leadership positions will have to deal with the spiritual hurts that go with the job. Satan is not gentler in his attack on women just because we are women. I tend to think he's worse.
3/ Men are made to protect us. If we take an elder position who are we to then lovingly submit to other than God? Who will guide and protect us when Satan attacks?

Paul was not sexist. He was just looking out for women. Hes just as hard on men too you know - its a two way street.

1/ I know plenty of woman warriors and weak men. Who says that woman were created to be celebrated by sustaining life? And we dont know why He targeted Eve, but Adam was with here at the time.
2/ Who says woman are any less capable of dealing with the "spiritual hurts" that go with the job? Woman can bear childen!

3/Men are definately protectors, and are stronger physically, but woman can be just as strong spiritually, Its in God that we get our strength so its Gods strength that satan faces when he come against us, male or female. God will protect His leaders, and they will protect each other, I believe in leadership teams not loner rangers. Men and woman together. These female leaders, qualified and equipped would lead, guide, teach and instruct many in the congregation, working as five fold ministers, to equip and build up the church of God.

If you take the scripture to mean woman are to remain silent and not teach a man or have authority over him, then the most anointed, spiritually matured, knowledgable female would not qualify to teach a new, immature, man that has no understanding, but he would have to go to another man to be instructed.

 

[imoss]

Ok now, I'm soooo loving how the guys are debating the gals... but its like i somehow wandered into opposite land ;0). Love it guys!

 

[greatkraw]

an elder must be the husband of one wife

or ride a harley

 

[Sharp]

I like you already

p.s. dont mind sharp he would rather women be wiped off the face of the planet

hahaha that is partly true,,,but...

we can try to negotiate with Paul and God as much as we like, and try to convince ourselves that we know what they reeeeeeeeeally meant....but really at the end of the day i reckon you know you're kidding yourselves.

1 Timothy 2:12 says women are to remain quiet in church. The KJV and NIV say silent.These are words which are very clear cut and are not open to interpretation.

Definitions from dictionary.com

Silent: making no sound; quiet; still

Quiet: making no noise or sound, especially no disturbing sound



Yes it doesn't fit in with our modern society where women want to be men, but the bible was never written to conform with anyone's preferences or desires.