Do you want the truth? Here is the truth about eschatology

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iamsoandso said:
Any way though I was curious if you knew what Mr.Write was quoting since he gave no source. If not it is from the Decian persecution in ad250 which would not help FP anyway seeing it is after ad70 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decian_persecution
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It's too bad he didn't list any sources, although you can find similar comments on the net. I've been looking for an early source for this on the net and downloaded a pdf from Academi.edu. This document lists other book sources so I'm following a rabbit trail.
 
it's referred to as an "libellus" it was a document they received after they complied to the decree by Decian. I remember several years back when it ran through the Christian threads.
 
iamsoandso said:
lol, in the link to the book you gave in post #431 mr. Write does make that comment but if you read the chapters before and after it he never gives or refers to any proof for his comment.
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Whether one agrees with N.T. Wright or not on his ideas on scripture, he is a scholar and does have brilliant mind and I highly doubt he would put forth any work that wasn't fully researched and source.

What you are seeing in Google Books is an abridged version and the Bibliography/Footnotes are not available.
 
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UnderGrace said:
Whether one agrees with N.T. Wright or not on his ideas on scripture, he is a scholar and does have brilliant mind and I highly doubt he would put forth any work that wasn't fully researched and source.

What you are seeing in Google Books is an abridged version and the Bibliography/Footnotes are not available.
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In post #431 if you go the the blue portion where it says "link to the book" and open it then "follow the page numbers" you will see blue portion that says that page 119 and 120 are not given in this...ect.

It has little to do with his(Wright) credentials it is that there are two pages in the preview that are missing explaining what I said . He wrote this book and it was published in 2011 and has been discussed in threads here on CC and on others since then . If not and there are footnotes from 2011 to 2019 no one has offered them other than the ones I gave that I know of.
 
iamsoandso said:
In post #431 if you go the the blue portion where it says "link to the book" and open it then "follow the page numbers" you will see blue portion that says that page 119 and 120 are not given in this...ect.

It has little to do with his(Wright) credentials it is that there are two pages in the preview that are missing explaining what I said . He wrote this book and it was published in 2011 and has been discussed in threads here on CC and on others since then . If not and there are footnotes from 2011 to 2019 no one has offered them other than the ones I gave that I know of.
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Google books for I'm guessing copyright reasons omit pages.

Whether Wright has the libellus in mind I don't know. As noted that particular style of libellus does not date back to the 1st century, although Tacitus does make mention of various forms of libellus.
 
azamzimtoti said:
Google books for I'm guessing copyright reasons omit pages.

Whether Wright has the libellus in mind I don't know. As noted that particular style of libellus does not date back to the 1st century, although Tacitus does make mention of various forms of libellus.
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I think that libellus just denotes it to be a "Little book" instead of a scroll type writing. The only ones I've seen that they have stating someone complied to sacrifices to Caesar was from ad250 from Decian's reign. http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/SMIGRA*/Libellus.html (for purpose of definition)...

there are quite a few rabbit trails using Decian's decree to forward the fulfillment of the mark though. And I notice at the same time there are similar misquotes from the futurist camps also. lol, I wish it were not true of either but it is and I think it will make it more complicated to understand things in the long run.
 
azamzimtoti said:
This is a screen shot from N.T. Wrights book "Revelation for Everyone"

2nqr59d.jpg


Link to the book
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Selling and buying indulgences rather than spiritual truths. I think that carried on even after the first century reformation through the fifteenth right up to today . . . its part of the mark of the beast, unconverted mankind doctrine.

Its not the kind of what I would call hunger as a drawing out of the gospel that Amos speaks of in chapter 8. A famine for hearing the word of God. not for literal food to feed these bodies of death. The time of reformation had come there was weeping in the temporal temple .The veil was rent, no bleating of the sheep it is finished. The promised glory had come .

Interesting some take the mark of Cain. . the mark of God's integrity as a punishment Cain could not bear and changed it into a credit card, cashless society , it would seem into a faithless society. . Rather than what it does represent buying and selling spiritual truth. We are to buy and not sell . . . . killing ones soul for a lie .. . . .You will not surely die.

Esau the first born like Cain who hated God's people (Abel) saw no value in a God not seen he sold his for a bowl of soup, another marked man (no faith)

Is that where the word Kosher came in, take a number ?
 
garee said:
Selling and buying indulgences rather than spiritual truths. I think that carried on even after the first century reformation through the fifteenth right up to today . . . its part of the mark of the beast, unconverted mankind doctrine.

Its not the kind of what I would call hunger as a drawing out of the gospel that Amos speaks of in chapter 8. A famine for hearing the word of God. not for literal food to feed these bodies of death. The time of reformation had come there was weeping in the temporal temple .The veil was rent, no bleating of the sheep it is finished. The promised glory had come .

Interesting some take the mark of Cain. . the mark of God's integrity as a punishment Cain could not bear and changed it into a credit card, cashless society , it would seem into a faithless society. . Rather than what it does represent buying and selling spiritual truth. We are to buy and not sell . . . . killing ones soul for a lie .. . . .You will not surely die.

Esau the first born like Cain who hated God's people (Abel) saw no value in a God not seen he sold his for a bowl of soup, another marked man (no faith)

Is that where the word Kosher came in, take a number ?
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Yes garee, the Protestants carried on with their Catholic doctrines not realizing the mark of the beast was included. Christianity was hijacked in 325 AD by Constantine (a non-Christian). Most scholars agree the mark of the beast is symbolic. In the forehead (their thoughts) and in the right hand (the way they worked). I believe the SDA got this right.

That isn't to say that there will no modern system of locking out people from buying and selling. There may be something like that coming. I think it will still have to do with Sunday worship, thus no buying or selling on Sunday. Maybe even started by the RCC.
 
delirious said:
We have been living in the new heavens and earth (not a physical place) for 2,000 years. God bless you.
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I could accept Jesus through the Holy Spirit brought the Kingdom of Heaven to earth in His people,
but new heavens and new earth is just projection because it fits a theory.

The promise of a new heaven and new earth is because of the failure, death and destruction we see
all around us and carries on till today. If we are in the new heaven and earth, that promise is certainly
not what we are expecting ......
 
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iamsoandso said:
Yep "Jews Revolting",,, completely opposite of those worshiping Rome's(beast) image as God as found in Scripture.
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I don't think you can be that specific Mr. So

(John 19:15 Him!” Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar!” )

John's "mark" is not necessarily aimed at the revolting Jews, he may be speaking of a wider application.

John in a few verses earlier mentions the downfall of Babylon:

(Rev 14:8 And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.” )

Now if this "Babylon" is 1st century Jerusalem then the "mark" is also part of and associated with his 1st century prophecy.
 
iamsoandso said:
Yep "Jews Revolting",,, completely opposite of those worshiping Rome's(beast) image as God as found in Scripture.
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You do realize there were various factions within the Jewish community...and things changed over the course of time.
 
azamzimtoti said:
I don't think you can be that specific Mr. So

(John 19:15 Him!” Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar!” )

John's "mark" is not necessarily aimed at the revolting Jews, he may be speaking of a wider application.

John in a few verses earlier mentions the downfall of Babylon:

(Rev 14:8 And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.” )

Now if this "Babylon" is 1st century Jerusalem then the "mark" is also part of and associated with his 1st century prophecy.
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lol, I as referring to Revelation 13:15 there are one group who are killed because they wont worship the image and the other group who do worship the image and are not killed. People revolting against Caesar just doesn't seem as if they worship his image right?
 
UnderGrace said:
You do realize there were various factions within the Jewish community...and things changed over the course of time.
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I cant see how there being different factions would change them to worshiping Rome/Ceasar's image if their actions show they revolted instead of worshiping it.
 
iamsoandso said:
lol, I as referring to Revelation 13:15 there are one group who are killed because they wont worship the image and the other group who do worship the image and are not killed. People revolting against Caesar just doesn't seem as if they worship his image right?
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So how does 13:15 take it out of a 1st century Babylon/Jerusalem context?

(Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666. )
 
azamzimtoti said:
So how does 13:15 take it out of a 1st century Babylon/Jerusalem context?

(Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666. )
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Do you think that the Jews being killed in the siege,(didn't worship the image), fulfilled Revelation 13:15?
 
iamsoandso said:
Do you think that the Jews being killed in the siege,(didn't worship the image), fulfilled Revelation 13:15?
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Hard to say with any "precision" Mr. So

What we need to do is try and establish the identity of the "first beast" and then what the "image" is.

(Rev 13:12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.)
 
azamzimtoti said:
Hard to say with any "precision" Mr. So

What we need to do is try and establish the identity of the "first beast" and then what the "image" is.

(Rev 13:12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.)
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lol, Look at Revelation 14:13-14 the ones killed have the faith of Jesus,,,,, the Jews who revolted and were killed in the seige did not believe Jesus was/is the Messiah.
 
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