And the beat goes on....
I love my brothers and sisters! Especially those with seemingly unlimited patience with the Grace PLUS works crowd. I'm exhausted from them. Like fighting a Hydra.
doctrine, Life and death
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And the beat goes on....
I love my brothers and sisters! Especially those with seemingly unlimited patience with the Grace PLUS works crowd. I'm exhausted from them. Like fighting a Hydra.
And you were spot on accurate with your analysis that the last sentence was sufficient.
I just wonder how someone falls into that error so dramatically and extravagantly that they also think they should teach other Christians how to fall from Grace.
1 Timothy 1:5-7
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
That's why Jesus was the greatest Law preacher and the greatest grace teacher at the same time. He gave what was needed at the time for each person.
To those that think they can live by the Law and really don't need a Savior- Jesus gave them Moses 2.0 - the Law on steroids.
To those that knew they couldn't do the Law and needed a Savior - Jesus gave them grace.
Jesus told others in the Jewish system to do the Law to reveal their need for a Savior. If we mix up the covenants from the Old to the New we will create all kinds of messes like this going back tot he Law for living.
It is committing spiritual adultery on the Lord Jesus Christ. We are now dead to the Law SO THAT we can be joined to Another - Jesus our Lord. Romans 7:1-6
Grace "teaches" us to live soberly and godly in this present world which is why we need to be teaching the grace of Christ and NOT the law.
Paul who knew the law better then anyone had this to say about the purpose of the law.
The purpose of the law was :
1) To reveal our sinful state. Rom 3:20
2) To inflame sin Rom 7:8
3) To minister death in us Rom 7:10-11
4) To lead us to Christ Gal 3:24
The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law! When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.
But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.
Col 2:13-15 is where in says that Christ "disarmed" satan having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and He nailed it to the cross.
Satan uses the law against us. Satan comes and says to you - you broke the law - you are condemned now according to the law. BUT our Lord took that punishment for breaking that law for us. When Christ takes away the condemnation of the law which satan uses against when he accuses us - he is being "disarmed".
If disarmed means anything - it means he did have a weapon but now he doesn't because of our Lord. How great is our salvation in Him!
Hello simplifiedtruth,
Actually it is. Once God calls a person and they respond to His in-birthing of faith, we begin to go through the process of being made holy, which is sanctification through the Holy Spirit. As we walk in Christ and are led by the Spirit, we are being transformed into Christ's image. He changes the believer as we go from faith to faith. We are not under ordinance and the written code as those who were under the law. If we fail along the way, when we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness. You are free in Christ, but let us use our freedom for the works of righteousness.
Actually it is. Once God calls a person and they respond to His in-birthing of faith, we begin to go through the process of being made holy, which is sanctification through the Holy Spirit. As we walk in Christ and are led by the Spirit, we are being transformed into Christ's image. He changes the believer as we go from faith to faith. We are not under ordinance and the written code as those who were under the law. If we fail along the way, when we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness. You are free in Christ, but let us use our freedom for the works of righteousness.
No, we are not told to keep Doctrines. We have many trying to keep the Doctrines of Men thinking their Salvation is dependent on this.
We are told to keep the Commandments of God.
There are many false prophets among us today teaching Doctrines of men as Commandments of God.
We keep the Commandments of God because God loved us first. We keep the Commandments by Love. If you are trying to keep the Commandments by your on efforts, this is a sin.
Not everyone is at the same point of Faith as everyone else. It takes time to grow in the Lord, time to mature.
We are told to keep the Commandments of God.
There are many false prophets among us today teaching Doctrines of men as Commandments of God.
We keep the Commandments of God because God loved us first. We keep the Commandments by Love. If you are trying to keep the Commandments by your on efforts, this is a sin.
Not everyone is at the same point of Faith as everyone else. It takes time to grow in the Lord, time to mature.
What are you going to do when you meet Jesus and He ask you, how come you did not keep my commandments ? Are you going to argue with him and say "No, this is what you meant. It was only to show us that we needed you". It is true that the heart must come before obedience and not the other way around, but they go together.
You cant make up your own gospel. You need to put down all your biases and lenses which you have created and re read the bible with no biases. It takes a lot of time and study to understand the new testament, especially Paul. Because most people read Paul from a western perspective and through the lenses of the catholic church and all denominations that stems from it(Religious biases), it becomes incredibly hard for people to understand the NT. Especially if one has not very well studied the law and the prophets. To not have done so is a disaster coming from the western religious mindset.
If Jesus told us to do the law and teach others to do so it does not matter what we think about it, He is the Master not us. No matter of personal philosophy or biases that we have developed over time is ever going to justify anything else than what He has commanded us to do. To say otherwise is to put our own words in Jesus mouth, thereby making up your own version of the gospel. Anyone can use any text from the bible to claim it is saying what they want it to say, but they can never remove the plain truth of a matter just because they think one scripture thrums another. Not everyone should utter all that is on their mind. Just because someone thinks himself to be right does not mean he is right and there is a danger to presume so. Stick to the Word and don't change it or attack it with personal developed biases.
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I agree with most of what you are saying here but you have not comprehended what Paul is saying when he says we are not under the law but under grace. Please read this article carefully with no biases to understand what I am saying about the law and being under grace: Are we still under the law? | Sabbath Truth
Sin is the transgression of the law in the NT.
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Jesus is going to say to me...well done good and faithful servant. You obeyed the gospel and believed in Me. The gospel is the power of God for salvation - NOT the Law.
1) We live now by the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus
2) the law of love
3) the law of faith ( The Law is NOT of faith )
4) the law of liberty in Christ Jesus
5) the law of Christ - Himself living in us.
We don't need to "obey" Lev. 18:23 as the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus will stop us from having sex with animals.
To go back to the Law for living is deserting the Lord Jesus Christ and it is called falling from grace - Paul said in Galatians.
If we go back to the Law for living we are committing spiritual adultery on the Lord Jesus. Romans 7:1-6 We are dead to the Law SO THAT we can be joined to Another - Jesus our Lord.
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Grace777, good answer, but I couldn't 'like' the post bc of the pic, lol. Jesus making time with another guys girl? Lol, I get it, though.
simplifiedtruth asks:
-What are you going to do when you meet Jesus and He ask you, how come you did not keep my commandments ?-
I'll probably yell, Get lost, you phony.
What makes you think Jesus will ask that question to you?
When I meet Jesus it will be in His kingdom, right?
Or in the rapture?
I doubt that's the conversation we'll be having then.
simplifiedtruth asks:
-What are you going to do when you meet Jesus and He ask you, how come you did not keep my commandments ?-
I'll probably yell, Get lost, you phony.
What makes you think Jesus will ask that question to you?
When I meet Jesus it will be in His kingdom, right?
Or in the rapture?
I doubt that's the conversation we'll be having then.
Let's see if we can spot a pattern here.
God kicked angels out of heaven for sinning, (not obeying His commandments).
God divorced Israel and sent her awy for sinning. (not obeying His commandments).
God has sent His only Son, to pay the death penalty for sin. (not obeying His commandments).
Do you think it matters to God if we sin? (not obeying His commandments).
It is very obvious - you don't know what Jesus did for us and the gospel is really a mystery to you which is why you go back to the Law to try to establish and maintain your own righteousness. This is anti-Christ belief.
It is only by grace that we teaches us how to live godly in this present world. The Law is the strength of sin. Preach and teach the grace of God and "believers in Christ and who are in Christ as one spirit" will walk free of all things. We are not under Law but grace only.
They have tried preaching "all grace" and "grace only" for 1700 years. does not work. does not work because it is not true. grace should cause conversion. not compromise.
Have you ever read the history of the church? They tried to kill Martin Luther because he said "The just shall live by faith" and "By grace we are saved through faith". The tradition for 1300 years before he came along was based on "works" just like the modern day Judaizer's religion. Both of these are anti-Christ beliefs.
LUKE 16:15.
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
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UnderGrace
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So then there is a ticket but people have to pay for it? Is that what you are saying?
If that is the case how do you know when you have paid enough, seems to me that it would be a very very very expensive ticket?