Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[CS1]

Im defending unconditional election, its taught in Eph and Rom. I started this thread !

only if you could find the words "unconditional Election" in the Word of God you would have something. That is created term that is unbiblical, no different than Hyper grace. it is an application that is not supported by the word of God.

You have no election without Grace through faith. You placed election before Grace. You say and use the word Election with more power than Grace and faith. The word Election is not even used in the word of God as much as Grace and Love, and repent By the Lord Jesus himself.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Adam was the elect , he disbelieved what God had said because the devil told him it wasn’t true , the first false doctrine

Where do you find that Adam was "elect"? It's not in the Bible. And it wasn't Adam who "disbelieved" but the woman.

"And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner." 1 Tim 2:14

we can’t get home to the lord unless we follow his words in the gospel

You think "His words in the gospel" are "believe and be water baptized" in order to "get home to the Lord".

Well, you simply fail to discern the difference between water baptism, which is what John the baptizer did, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which comes from Jesus Himself.

Regarding the gospel message, in John 5:24 Jesus said those who believe POSSESS ("have" in the present tense) eternal life.

Then, in John 10:28 Jesus said that recipients of eternal life (believers) SHALL NEVER PERISH.

Either you believe what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life, or you don't.

Jesus said nothing about water baptism for salvation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Im defending unconditional election, its taught in Eph and Rom. I started this thread !

It is unconditional. God has chosen ALL believers for service.

But Calvinism has perverted the doctrine to be that God unconditionally chooses who will believe and be saved. That is unbiblical.

Did you read 1 Cor 1:27-28? It's all about election, but nothing about salvation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Election before the foundation in Eph 1 is unconditional election to Salvation !

I have already proven from Scripture that the word "us" in v.4 is defined in v19 as "us who believe". Therefore, you can substitute the word "us" with "believers" in v.4.

Therefore, the verse says that God has chosen believers to be holy and blameless.

Believers are already saved. God has chosen saved people to be holy and blameless.

Where is the verse that clearly tells us that God chooses who will believe, for that is the only issue for Calvinists.

Yes, God DOES choose whom to save. Obviously. It's His plan, of course.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

The red words show who God chooses to save: believers.

But Calvinism goes way too far and claims that God chooses who will believe. That cannot be found in Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Election to Salvation is unconditional, for its by grace and it occurred before the chosen were ever born ! Eph 1;Rom 9

The Bible teaches very clearly and repeatedly that salvation is by faith. That IS a condition.

You have failed to "rightly divide the Word of Truth".

 

[FreeGrace2]

You still lost me, for this is about God choosing individuals for Salvation in Christ before the foundation. Your comment here doesnt appear to sync with anything I said !

lol. None of your claims sunc with what the Bible says.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If Election/Salvation was in ay degree conditioned or contingent on what a person does, even thinks, then they could not be by Grace.

The issue isn't about whether election is by conditions. Of course it isn't.

The only issue regarding election is the PURPOSE for which God elects. Service is the purpose, which I've shown from Scripture.

1 Cor 1:27-28, John 6:70, etc.

Jesus Christ is called The Elect One. Was He chosen for salvation?

Election is of Grace minus works Rom 9:11;11:5-6 and Salvation is the same Eph 2:8-9; 2 Tim 1:9

If that's your formula for concluding that election is to salvation, you have a very illogical logic.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Thats the Truth, Election unto Salvation is about individuals, and its taught to be unconditional in both Rom 9 and Eph 1 !

Where is any verse that speaks of God electing to salvation?

 

[FreeGrace2]

brightfame52 said:
Im defending unconditional election, its taught in Eph and Rom. I started this thread !

only if you could find the words "unconditional Election" in the Word of God you would have something. That is created term that is unbiblical, no different than Hyper grace. it is an application that is not supported by the word of God.

You have no election without Grace through faith. You placed election before Grace. You say and use the word Election with more power than Grace and faith. The word Election is not even used in the word of God as much as Grace and Love, and repent By the Lord Jesus himself.

Not only that, but "election" is NEVER used in regard to salvation. Therefore, NO ONE is unconditionally elected to salvation.

Everyone who has been elected, including unbelievers, have been chosen for service.

Here is a list of the examples of who has been elected in Scripture.

There are 7 different examples of election, and none are for salvation:

Examples of Election
1. Election of Christ: Isa 42:1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.
Matt 12:18 "Behold, My Servant whom I have chosen; My Beloved in whom My soul is well-pleased; I will put My Spirit upon Him, And He shall proclaim justice to the Gentiles.
Luke 9:35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"
Luke 23:35 And the people stood by, looking on. And even the rulers were sneering at Him, saying, "He saved others; let Him save Himself if this is the Christ of God, His Chosen One.
1 Peter 2:6 For this is contained in Scripture: "Behold I lay in Zion a choice (ELECTED) stone, a precious corner stone, And he who believes in Him shall not be disappointed."

2. Election of Israel: Amos 3:2 "You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; Therefore, I will punish you for all your iniquities."
Deut 7:6 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
Luke 11:54 “He has helped his servant Israel, remembering to be merciful”

3. Election of Angels: 1 Tim 5:21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality.

4. Election of the Church or body of Christ: Eph 1:4a just as He chose us (believers) in Him… v.19 defines “us” as “those who believe”. 1 Pet 2:9 - But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nations people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His wonderful light.

5. Other elections:
Paul: Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;
1 Tim 1:12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service.
Apostles: John 6:70,71 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.) {Judas was chosen to betray the Lord}
John 15:16 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you , and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask of the Father in My name, He may give to you.
1 Cor 1:27-28 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,
Acts 10:41 - He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.

This list includes the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, angels, the nation or people of Israel, NT believers, and specific believers for specific service.

But, ALL of these examples show that they were chosen (elected) for SERVICE, not salvation.

And note from John 6:70 that Judas, an unbeliever was chosen for service.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thats the Truth, Election unto Salvation is about individuals, and its taught to be unconditional in both Rom 9 and Eph 1 !

Thats NOT TRUE

Once again. God Chose Israel as a holy nation. That has nothing to do with anyone being saved.

And romans 9 is about ISRAEl. Not induvidual people

9 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my [a]countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

This is the context of romans 9. This is the people to whom paul called “elect” These are the people to whom paul will spend the next three chapters arguing the point.

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect.

Here is the argument paul will spend the next three chapters dealing with. Has the word of God (in electing Israel) take no affect. Or was it a mistake. Did it fail? How come the people to whom God chose as a nation, Who he gave the law too. Who he adopted as his nation of people who he made all these promises to in the OT failed? (they rejected Christ who came through them)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi Justpassingthrough. The text itself tells us who is exlcuded.

It's those who don't believe, those who are already condemened.

"that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (v16b).

"but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son" (v18b).

That is not the only way we can interpret that passage though

The world can be seen as everyone

Even in the passage, It states belief is required.

Remember, those who believe were in a condemned state BEFORE they believed.

 

[brightfame52]

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16



What people are excluded from the world?






JPT

What does that have to do with unconditional election ?

 

[brightfame52]

The elect is a reference to the Jews.


Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10



Do you believe only Jews will be saved?




JPT

Not its not, at least not exclusively ! Gods Elect are out of every tribe, nation, and tongue !

 

[brightfame52]

Your right election to salvation is about induviduals

Where your wrong is romana 9-11 is not about election to salvation
it’s about Gods chowing of Israel

Right its about individuals, God chose a multitude of individuals, unconditionally by Grace ! Technically it is Israel, Spiritual Israel the Body of Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

only if you could find the words "unconditional Election" in the Word of God you would have something. That is created term that is unbiblical, no different than Hyper grace. it is an application that is not supported by the word of God.

You have no election without Grace through faith. You placed election before Grace. You say and use the word Election with more power than Grace and faith. The word Election is not even used in the word of God as much as Grace and Love, and repent By the Lord Jesus himself.

I dont need the words unconditionally election literally, when Gods word states clearly that election took place before the foundation of the world prior to anyone had physical existence to perform any conditions.

 

[brightfame52]

It is unconditional. God has chosen ALL believers for service.

But Calvinism has perverted the doctrine to be that God unconditionally chooses who will believe and be saved. That is unbiblical.

Did you read 1 Cor 1:27-28? It's all about election, but nothing about salvation.

Right its unconditional !

 

[brightfame52]

I have already proven from Scripture that the word "us" in v.4 is defined in v19 as "us who believe". Therefore, you can substitute the word "us" with "believers" in v.4.

Therefore, the verse says that God has chosen believers to be holy and blameless.

Believers are already saved. God has chosen saved people to be holy and blameless.

Where is the verse that clearly tells us that God chooses who will believe, for that is the only issue for Calvinists.

Yes, God DOES choose whom to save. Obviously. It's His plan, of course.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

The red words show who God chooses to save: believers.

But Calvinism goes way too far and claims that God chooses who will believe. That cannot be found in Scripture.

No one existed before the creation of world when God chose a people in Christ by Grace. Its only conditioned on Gods Sovereign Will plus nothing.

 

[brightfame52]

Where is any verse that speaks of God electing to salvation?

I have showed verses a multitude of times. All the verses that speak on election is about Salvation, maybe for the exception of a couple of them.

 

[brightfame52]

Thats NOT TRUE

Once again. God Chose Israel as a holy nation. That has nothing to do with anyone being saved.

And romans 9 is about ISRAEl. Not induvidual people

9 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my [a]countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

This is the context of romans 9. This is the people to whom paul called “elect” These are the people to whom paul will spend the next three chapters arguing the point.

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect.

Here is the argument paul will spend the next three chapters dealing with. Has the word of God (in electing Israel) take no affect. Or was it a mistake. Did it fail? How come the people to whom God chose as a nation, Who he gave the law too. Who he adopted as his nation of people who he made all these promises to in the OT failed? (they rejected Christ who came through them)

Yes it is True !

 

[Justified]

Hi Justpassingthrough. The text itself tells us who is exlcuded.

It's those who don't believe, those who are already condemened.

"that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (v16b).

"but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son" (v18b).

The calvinist has decided that God picked out a small group that would believe and then condemned everyone else. Remember for the calvinist this all happened B4 creation so it had nothing to do with what any person had done or would do. So calvinists have God just making arbitrary choices but that is not what the bible shows.
As you said those that are excluded are those that do not believe, that is something that happens in time. The same can be said for those that do believe and are saved.

Note:
Those that believe are not condemned {condemned is in the present tense, a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time.} God has saved them based on the decision they made then not something He decided B4 time.
Those that do not believe are condemned {condemned is in the perfect tense, viewed as having been completed in the past,} we are all held responsible for our sins until we place our trust in Christ Jesus.