Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[reneweddaybyday]

When God gives you a gift and you receive the gift ... is the gift yours???or did you decline the gift and say "No thanks, God, that belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ"???

it is given unconditionally to those whom the Father has chosen

okay ... soooo did God give you faith?

 

[rogerg]

okay ... soooo did God give you faith?

Yes, as a gift. Why?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Yes, as a gift. Why?

When God gives you faith "as a gift" do you get to keep the gift?

 

[rogerg]

When God gives you faith "as a gift" do you get to keep the gift?

He gives the Holy Spirit, whose fruit is faith. Once given, the Holy Spirit remains. Where are we going with this? It would probably be
a lot easier for both of us if you'd just make your point

 

[fredoheaven]

[2Th 2:13 KJV]
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Good scripture verse. In math the equation is something like this:

Salvation = Holy Spirit + Beief of the truth (Gospel).

This means to say, salvation is by the action of "through" the setting part of the Holy Spirit and belief in Christ's gospel which harmonizes with many scriptural passages like John 3:6; 1 Peter 1:21-23; Romans 1:16 etc.

 

[Grandpa]

All manner of sin will be forgiven all men

Since it has been the HS job to convict the world, to give us the word, (all scripture is God breathed) and work miracles through the prophets and Christ himself. to not believe what God has given and to give credit to someone other than God (like sadly many churches do) is to go against the HS.

This is called blasphemy of the spirit. and this sin will never be forgiven

Remember those who nailed Jesus to the cross. He said forgive them
Those who he healed. As he said it was the same as forgiving sin (since sickness and disease is the result of sin)

No one will be condemned because they commited adultry.

They are condemned because they did not believe

He who believes is not condemned

He who does nt believe is condemned already.

So the blessing of Reconciliation is for believers only. You can't be reconciled to God and condemned by God.

The blessing of Forgiveness is for believers only. You can't be righteous before God and condemned by God simultaneously.


If you are condemned then you have not received the Blessings of God. You can't be partially reconciled and partially righteous and partially condemned all at once. Its a contradiction.

The Blessings of God, the Gifts of God, belong to His People, believers.

 

[John146]

Good scripture verse. In math the equation is something like this:

Salvation = Holy Spirit + Beief of the truth (Gospel).

This means to say, salvation is by the action of "through" the setting part of the Holy Spirit and belief in Christ's gospel which harmonizes with many scriptural passages like John 3:6; 1 Peter 1:21-23; Romans 1:16 etc.

Yes, this verse is plainly speaking to the method of salvation.

 

[fredoheaven]

"is the gift yours"?

Don't follow what point is, but possibly, the below answers it. When someone becomes born again,
God also renews (changes) their core spiritual values, so that one's fundamental thinking, understanding, and the way they look at life
becomes very different spiritually speaking; that is, they translate a very different person. That change also being a part of the gift- you become the gift, the gift doesn't become you

[Eph 4:23 KJV] 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

[Eph 1:17 KJV] 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Yes, the gift of salvation is ours when we receive or believe. Romans 6:23. A gift becomes your's when you receive it. Amen!

 

[Grandpa]

Only God calls and gifts through his grace Salvation and belief. And he predestined this before he created the world.

Jesus took the sins of the world! An endless list of sins of the world abound. Lust, envy, greed, murder, hate, theft, adultery, etc....

It doesn't say Jesus took the sins of every sinner in the world upon himself on the cross. Because every single scripture, including John 3:16, is delivered in the context of God having predestined whom he would save before the foundation of the world. And every scripture that relates to reiterating that tells us, what Jesus himself said. No one comes to him unless the father draws them.
And being the father draws us, no one can take us from Jesus hand. All that the father gives him, he will not lose one.
John 6:37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

Context!
Romans 9:11 Though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls.
Ephesians 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
We don't choose to believe. Why? God tells us. The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.



Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
...:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Ephesians 1:4 Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love

I think we are saying the same things here. Just in a different way.

The Lord Jesus paid the price for the sin of the World.

But, the gift of Forgiveness and Reconciliation belongs to believers only.

 

[fredoheaven]

He gives the Holy Spirit, whose fruit is faith. Once given, the Holy Spirit remains. Where are we going with this? It would probably be
a lot easier for both of us if you'd just make your point

Sounds the Holy Spirit is a gift, not the giver. Umm...Seem illogical to say he is gifting us with the Holy Spirit"

 

[Grandpa]

I do. Do you?


I just explained it to you in my previous post to you. Go back and digest it.


OK, so deal with some of them and enlighten me.


I think it is what the Bible SAYS it is. A 2 party deal. Each party must agree for full reconciliation. If only 1 party extends their hand, but the other doesn't, there is no reconciliation.

In 2 Cor 5:19 God has "extended His hand in reconciliation" through Christ's death on behalf of everyone.

However, in the very next verse, Paul encourages people to "be reconciled to God". If you don't see 2 sides to reconciliation, you just don't want to.

So, God has extended His hand. Man "extends his hand" by believing the gospel. That's full reconciliation.

By paying the sin debt, Jesus has every right and authority to offer the free gift of eternal life (which He paid for) to everyone.

1 Corinthians 2:18 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Man has no capacity to do the things you think he does.

 

[fredoheaven]

If you are condemned then you have not received the Blessings of God. You can't be partially reconciled and partially righteous and partially condemned all at once. Its a contradiction.

The Blessings of God, the Gifts of God, belong to His People, believers.

That would be the result of not believing which is condemnation.

 

[Icedaisey]

I think we are saying the same things here. Just in a different way.

The Lord Jesus paid the price for the sin of the World.

But, the gift of Forgiveness and Reconciliation belongs to believers only.

Yes, I believe you're correct. The Gospel is contextual in its full message. All, everyone, etc.... pertains to the Elect of God. Those whom God chose for Salvation before the creation of the world.

I think the misunderstanding, or misapplication in some cases, is what leads to the idea of Universalism. Jesus died to save everyone for all eternity. And as such all people for all eternity are in the grace of Salvation.
When we know what the Bible says and personally what it means to be redeemed, regenerated, indwelt and baptized by Holy Spirit, imagining that Pol Pot, Stalin, Manson, Dhamer, etc.... are Saved, given their history, is impossible.

 

[Grandpa]

But you have to come to Him and ask for His Forgiveness before you can be given this Gift.

Please quote any verse that says this. I don't believe you because I KNOW what the Bible says for receiving the free gift of eteranl life.

It seems you are the one who lacks understanding of the Bible.

.

Matthew 11:28 + Galatians 3:23

 

[rogerg]

This means to say, salvation is by the action of "through" the setting part of the Holy Spirit and belief in Christ's gospel which harmonizes with many scriptural passages like John 3:6; 1 Peter 1:21-23; Romans 1:16 etc.

Think I might have to adjust your equation a little with: salvation = God

 

[fredoheaven]

But, the gift of Forgiveness and Reconciliation belongs to believers only.

Here's the difference, the gift of eternal life is given to those who will believe. The git is for ALL yet is own by those who will receive it. Forgiveness and reconciliation were given to those who believe on him.

 

[rogerg]

Yes, the gift of salvation is ours when we receive or believe. Romans 6:23. A gift becomes your's when you receive it. Amen!

I think I would say it more like: when we receive salvation, we believe, not the reverse. If we truly believe in Christ, we can know we have been saved.

 

[fredoheaven]

Think I might have to adjust your equation a little with: salvation = God

Where's the "and belief of the truth" in the equation? Are we going to subtract it from scripture of truth? Will God believe the truth or He is the truth to believe? Thanks

 

[Grandpa]

Here's the difference, the gift of eternal life is given to those who will believe. The git is for ALL yet is own by those who will receive it. Forgiveness and reconciliation were given to those who believe on him.

The gift of eternal life is given to Gods people.

John 10:26-27
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

 

[John146]

1 Corinthians 2:18 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Man has no capacity to do the things you think he does.

Sounds like you believe that a lost person can have no understanding of God's word. Is this what you believe?