Doctrines like Limited Atonement - why?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#141
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#141
Lightskin said:
I like how you cunningly snuck in the words, could not believe, rather than, refused to believe. You actually make the claim they were pre-destined by God to not have the ability to believe. Sigh 😔.
Click to expand...
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

= cannot believe it.
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

Well-known member
#142
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
#142
Dave-L said:
Calvin believed as you do. So it does not refute Calvinism.

But you are trying to read scripture as you would a cookbook. In scripture, you must consider all of it on a matter and not just an isolated phrase. The whole world to a Jew = all nations, not just Israel. Why? This was the promise God made to Abraham. All nations, = the whole world, = not each and every person.
Click to expand...
How can you possibly in your right mind think that the Creator of the cosmos would crush His Son so brutally only for the interest of a select few people rather than giving His entire creation an opportunity to be saved?
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

Well-known member
#143
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
#143
Dave-L said:
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

= cannot believe it.
Click to expand...
It actually = refuses to believe.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#144
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#144
Lightskin said:
How can you possibly in your right mind think that the Creator of the cosmos would crush His Son so brutally only for the interest of a select few people rather than giving His entire creation an opportunity to be saved?
Click to expand...
How would you know God if he didn't save some in his mercy and send the rest to hell in his wrath? You create an idol when you overlook this.
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

Well-known member
#145
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
#145
Dave-L said:
How would you know God if he didn't save some in his mercy and send the rest to hell in his wrath? You create an idol when you overlook this.
Click to expand...
Once again you failed to answer my question.
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

Well-known member
#148
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
#148
Dave-L said:
How would you know God if he didn't save some in his mercy and send the rest to hell in his wrath? You create an idol when you overlook this.
Click to expand...
I do know God and I do know that whoever believes in Him is saved and whoever does not believe in Him is not saved. Where you come up with this idle nonsense is another head scratcher.
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

Well-known member
#149
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
#149
Dave-L said:
It says they cannot discern spiritual things. Like blind persons cannot discern color.
Click to expand...
Blind people actually can discern color, in ways you fail to understand.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#150
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#150
Lightskin said:
I do know God and I do know that whoever believes in Him is saved and whoever does not believe in Him is not saved. Where you come up with this idle nonsense is another head scratcher.
Click to expand...
What you do not understand yet, is that he must save you before you can believe. Faith tells you he saved you.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#154
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#154
UnitedWithChrist said:
What causes belief? Or, rather, who causes belief?

If you think it is something a fallen man, with a heart of stone, can produce from his own resources, without a heart of flesh being given to him, then you belong in the free willer camp, and you have reason to boast.

If you think it is God who gives the person a heart of flesh, which produces, as a fruit, faith and repentance, then you belong in the Reformed camp, and know that you have zero reason to boast.

That's really the determining factor.

Ephesians 2:1-10 is plain in this regard, I think, and no man has any reason for boasting, even his .1% that free willers think he has contributed to his salvation, as the determining factor.

I'm definitely in the latter camp :D

Praise be to God!

By the way, you may have been addressing someone else. That would be my response, though.

Additionally, the gospel is part of the means that God has decreed. He has decreed both the end and the means. That way, the regenerate man knows that the gospel is the means by which God had decreed to save him.
Click to expand...
The gospel gives the elect the knowledge of how he was saved (delivered) by God's grace, but the gospel is not the cause of his eternal deliverance, however, being taught the knowledge of the gospel does save (deliver) him here, as we sojourn here in this world. The misunderstanding of the deliverances is what causes many of God's children to believe in eternal salvation (deliverance) my their good works.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#156
Jan 13, 2016
17,155
3,697
113
#156
Dave-L said:
There is no millennium. It is a false doctrine of phariseeism. The kingdom is here now but only the born again can see it.
Click to expand...
Christ is now ruling with a rod of iron? He’s not ruling very well. He’s allowing sin and Satan to have their way in His kingdom.🙄. If you think Jesus is ruling this earth right now, you have a poor perception of His power to rule.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#157
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#157
Lightskin said:
Now you’re comparing blind people to rocks.
Click to expand...
Let's stay on topic. Did Jesus die for the Canaanites whom God told Israel to kill? How about those in the flood? how about those predestined to hell spoken of in the Epistles? All outside of Israel who had no temple or atonement in the OT?
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#158
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#158
John146 said:
Christ is now ruling with a rod of iron? He’s not ruling very well. He’s allowing sin and Satan to have their way in His kingdom.🙄. If you think Jesus is ruling this earth right now, you have a poor perception of His power to rule.
Click to expand...
Personally, I would be afraid to say this. If Jesus is God he always rules the nations with a rod of iron. And you pick at the job he's doing?.
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

Well-known member
#159
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
#159
Dave-L said:
Let's stay on topic. Did Jesus die for the Canaanites whom God told Israel to kill? How about those in the flood? how about those predestined to hell spoken of in the Epistles? All outside of Israel who had no temple or atonement in the OT?
Click to expand...
I don’t understand what you don’t understand regarding 1 John 2. Jesus is the sacrifice that atones for the sins of all the world. It’s simply astonishing that you’re twisting the words of the Apostle John.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#160
Jan 13, 2016
17,155
3,697
113
#160
Dave-L said:
Personally, I would be afraid to say this. If Jesus is God he always rules the nations with a rod of iron. And you pick at the job he's doing?.
Click to expand...
Satan is controlling the kingdoms of the earth right now until the second coming of Christ. Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father waiting to return as judge and King.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.