Doctrines like Limited Atonement - why?
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Recognition is not a matter of belief. The Old Testament saints did not believe in Christ, yet they recognized God and their hearts were with Him. Abraham knew nothing of Christ, yet His faith was deemed righteousness because He recognized who had addressed Him. I perceived, but did not know. Having perceived, I came to believe, having believed, I came to faith. God drew me the whole time and I would not have come to Him on my own, but He didn't decide for me what my response would be.
Saved, according to Greek means "delivered". There is a deliverance in coming to the knowledge of the truth, but it is not an eternal deliverance, but a deliverance that we can receive as we sojourn here in this world. Romans 10:1-3, Brethren my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel ((Jacob/Israel) is, that they might be saved (delivered). For I bear them record that they have "a zeal of God",(evidence of being born again. The natural man does not have a zeal of God, 1 Cor 2:14) but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and are going about to establish their own righteousness (by their good works), have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. These are the lost sheep that Jesus instructed his Apostles to go and preach to, (Matt 10:5).
Life in the scriptures does not always refer to eternal life, and death is "a separation" and does not always mean giving up the Holy Ghost, or a literal death. God has given us a choice as to how we want to live our lives here on earth, but our eternal destination is determined by God's sovereign grace, without the help of man.
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AMEN, Dave-L,
the scripture tells us that -
JOHN 3:3.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see The Kingdom of God'
LUKE 13:28.
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets,
in The Kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
and so, hello, 'how can they be 'there and not see it'???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
get your Bibles out you seekers and not teachers and LEARN the Truths of Jesus Christ...
AMEN, Dave-L,
the scripture tells us that -
JOHN 3:3.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see The Kingdom of God'
LUKE 13:28.
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets,
in The Kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
and so, hello, 'how can they be 'there and not see it'???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
get your Bibles out you seekers and not teachers and LEARN the Truths of Jesus Christ...
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There is a good and abundant life here in this world that we can live if we choose to follow god's commandments as we sojourn here in this world. This abundant life is also depicted in Math 7:14. This life has to be searched for and found within the scriptures, and few there be that find it. This life is not described as eternal life where those that have eternal life are numbered as the sands in the seashore and the stars in the sky, so many that they can not be numbered. The others that have eternal life along with the few are mentioned in Matt 7:13. Those who go into the strait gate are those that have been revealed the knowledge of the doctrine that Jesus taught.
Sure, but the context of Joshua appears to be implying more than simply comforts and "the good life" but the full blessings of the covenant and whether that covenant promised eternal life seems to be decided ex post facto rather than looking at how the original audience understood it. It was presented as if it was the means through which the promises to the primal people would be achieved, and it's clear from Joseph's end of life request that resurrection and eternal life were among the hopes of the people. It's only in a world where reformed doctrines are needing to be justified that splitting hairs between God promising temporal comforts and blessings vs eternal rewards becomes necessary. I see no reason, within the context of the choice, to not perceive it as a promise of life eternal and the full reception of the promises.
When can a person be born again? Jesus said that one is born again after the cross and when man believes on Him. Therefore, it is impossible for those before the cross to be born again.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
The old testament saints were born again, just the same way that we are born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 63:11), Then he remembered the days of old, Moses< and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he that put his Holy Spirit within him? Moses's faith was a spiritual faith which was a fruit of the Holy Spirit, the same as our spiritual faith. There are two kinds of faith; the natural faith of man, and the spiritual faith which is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. The old testament Saints had spiritual faith.