Does Acts 2:38 mean we have to be baptized to get into Heaven? -Debate

[dcontroversal]

1 Corinthians 4:4-5, "For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is Yahweh! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from Yahweh."

No offence, but that has nothing to do with the legit question I asked a man who claims you can loose salvation if you sin and then admits sin in the past but will argue he never lost it...that is hypocrisy and no offence HIZ, but if you teach you can loose salvation you also teach a heretical gospel as MY BIBLE teaches the security of the believer and One sin, 50 sins or 1000 sins will not cause one to loose that which is eternally secure, saved and justified by the perfect faith of Christ...It is the spirit that is born of GOD, does not sin, is secure, sealed and preserved in JESUS! NO AMOUNT OF LAW KEEPING will facilitate and or add to that which is a completed act in the past with present current continuing results brother!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The bible says we are to share the gospel, and then it says how it is given by us determines what the Holy Spirit will's us to do. For some He gives to be preachers, some teachers, and so on....

Ephesians 4:11
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

ken, do you read the bible at all? or do you just read books where people pick out verses, and say this is what you should believe?

those gifts are to edify the church, each other, Not to give the gospel to the world. Your context is off.. You have the ability to go out and give the gospel and lead people to the lord. You do not need a bunch of people with differing gifts to get people saved.

why are you so catholic? That is their doctrine, not the doctrine of God.

eph 4: 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,

1 cor 12: 12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into[c] one Spirit. 14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.

, 24 but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it, 25 that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.

 

[dcontroversal]

No I will not admit to your false accusation's toward me, and when we stand before Jesus at the judgment seat you will see that I am not teaching falsely. For all I do is stand up for our Lord and Savior and what He said.

Not bash, condemn, and use coarse words toward fellow brothers and sister's in Christ.

Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Now you are assuming and accusing I am mad at you or called you a fool.....wake up Kenneth and grow up bro!

 

[kennethcadwell]

ken, do you read the bible at all? or do you just read books where people pick out verses, and say this is what you should believe?

those gifts are to edify the church, each other, Not to give the gospel to the world. Your context is off.. You have the ability to go out and give the gospel and lead people to the lord. You do not need a bunch of people with differing gifts to get people saved.

why are you so catholic? That is their doctrine, not the doctrine of God.

eph 4: 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,

1 cor 12: 12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into[c] one Spirit. 14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.

, 24 but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it, 25 that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.

Now I am not off, the bible says the reasoning why some are to be preachers and others are to be teachers is because some are still to new to the faith and not knowledgeable in the word yet to preach or teach. So if they stand up and preach or teach not knowing exactly what the are saying then it does not edify.
Then others want to still throw their own personal traditions, customs, and morals into the word which defiles the word.
Therefore they are not qualified to preach or teach when they do that, and the bible says be careful when you are a preacher or a teacher to if you add or take things away from the word then you will be judged harsher then others for doing that.

Plus there is another scripture that has been misused and that is 1 Corinthians 9:14 that says those who preach the gospel are to live by the gospel. People have misused this for financial meaning, but it actually says that if you preach the word your walk in life needs to match what you preach. We preach the gospel of our Lord Jesus, which means we are to live by what He said......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Now I am not off, the bible says the reasoning why some are to be preachers and others are to be teachers is because some are still to new to the faith and not knowledgeable in the word yet to preach or teach. So if they stand up and preach or teach not knowing exactly what the are saying then it does not edify.
Then others want to still throw their own personal traditions, customs, and morals into the word which defiles the word.
Therefore they are not qualified to preach or teach when they do that, and the bible says be careful when you are a preacher or a teacher to if you add or take things away from the word then you will be judged harsher then others for doing that.

Plus there is another scripture that has been misused and that is 1 Corinthians 9:14 that says those who preach the gospel are to live by the gospel. People have misused this for financial meaning, but it actually says that if you preach the word your walk in life needs to match what you preach. We preach the gospel of our Lord Jesus, which means we are to live by what He said......

non of this has anything to do with you being able to win a coworker to Christ.

remember call pauls the gospel the milk of the word.

yes, bot everyone has been given the gift to teach THE CHURCH. it does not mean we can not give the gospel. God equips us all for that.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Now you are assuming and accusing I am mad at you or called you a fool.....wake up Kenneth and grow up bro!

You called me ignorant earlier, that is the same as calling somebody a fool
So that was not an assumption.

 

[Hizikyah]

No offence, but that has nothing to do with the legit question I asked a man who claims you can loose salvation if you sin and then admits sin in the past but will argue he never lost it...that is hypocrisy and no offence HIZ, but if you teach you can loose salvation you also teach a heretical gospel as MY BIBLE teaches the security of the believer and One sin, 50 sins or 1000 sins will not cause one to loose that which is eternally secure, saved and justified by the perfect faith of Christ...It is the spirit that is born of GOD, does not sin, is secure, sealed and preserved in JESUS! NO AMOUNT OF LAW KEEPING will facilitate and or add to that which is a completed act in the past with present current continuing results brother!

Sorry for jumpin in your convo there. Sincerely, my intention was to ease the debate, lol im not too good at that.

Scripture says one can lose salvation;

New American Standard Bible
The Peril of Falling Away

Heb6 - 1Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. 3And this we will do, if God permits. 4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

Hebrews 10:26-30, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him Who has said: Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says Yahweh. And again: Yahweh will judge His people."

 

[SeaBass]

If you say a person who has Faith in Jesus and dies without being baptized goes to hell. You deny justification by faith, which he Bible clearly teaches.

Justification is by faith not by faith alone.

A NT faith includes baptism as it includes repentance, confession and baptism.

If one could be saved by "faith alone" then that implies one can be saved while impenitent, while denying Christ and saved still in his unforgiven/unremitted sins.

 

[notuptome]

As I skim across these posts which are mostly just a rehash of the previous posts on the subject I am struck with the contradiction posed by this subject. I know of no place in the scripture where the disciples or apostles ever asked Jesus to teach them to baptize. Jesus was preparing these men to minister to the world and they never asked Him to teach them to baptize. Nor did Jesus ever establish the necessity of water baptism in His preaching ministry.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

As I skim across these posts which are mostly just a rehash of the previous posts on the subject I am struck with the contradiction posed by this subject. I know of no place in the scripture where the disciples or apostles ever asked Jesus to teach them to baptize. Jesus was preparing these men to minister to the world and they never asked Him to teach them to baptize. Nor did Jesus ever establish the necessity of water baptism in His preaching ministry.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

See the great commission, Mt 28,19,20 and Mk 16:15,16.

 

[notuptome]

Justification is by faith not by faith alone.

A NT faith includes baptism as it includes repentance, confession and baptism.

If one could be saved by "faith alone" then that implies one can be saved while impenitent, while denying Christ and saved still in his unforgiven/unremitted sins.

So if the bible does not teach what you want it to you just add it in?

I always thought NT or OT faith was believing what Gods word said. Good thing you came along to add the things God missed.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

See the great commission, Mt 28,19,20 and Mk 16:15,16.

Conclusively proven to be wrong. No water in those verses.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

I have never read that one who believes is not baptized will not be saved

Mk 16:16, Jesus made belief a prerequisite to being baptized and baptism a prerequisite to being saved. This would logically eliminate the idea of an unbaptized believer being saved.

 

[dcontroversal]

You called me ignorant earlier, that is the same as calling somebody a fool
So that was not an assumption.

Man you are ate up KENNETH go look the words up.....IGNORANCE and FOOL.......ONE means that you don't know and the other means a graceless wretch......you should get a dictionary and start studying words as it will help you understand a little better!

 

[elf3]

As I skim across these posts which are mostly just a rehash of the previous posts on the subject I am struck with the contradiction posed by this subject. I know of no place in the scripture where the disciples or apostles ever asked Jesus to teach them to baptize. Jesus was preparing these men to minister to the world and they never asked Him to teach them to baptize. Nor did Jesus ever establish the necessity of water baptism in His preaching ministry.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Only one place would it mention "how to baptize" and that would be the "great commission" in Matthew 28:19 which is pretty brief.

And for sure it's the Gospel of Christ which they taught.

 

[kennethcadwell]

non of this has anything to do with you being able to win a coworker to Christ.

remember call pauls the gospel the milk of the word.

yes, bot everyone has been given the gift to teach THE CHURCH. it does not mean we can not give the gospel. God equips us all for that.

Yes you can preach Jesus came in the flesh, died on the cross to give us remission of sins and reconciled to God, and rose on the third day. Now believe on Him and you shall be saved.


That I just gave is the milk of the word, now though after that has been given the meat of the word has to be administered to the person for their spiritual growth and understanding of what believing in Him means....

That is when the teaching of how to follow Him in their walk comes into play, for some are ready or have the ability to teach this part because they interject by adding or taking things away from what our Lord said. I have been falsely accused of adding to the word, when all I did what just post and state what Jesus said. If posting and stating what Jesus said is adding on, then I am guilty and happy to be guilty in front of men by standing firm in what the Lord said.

 

[SeaBass]

Clearly its not.. God did not send Paul to baptize but to preach the gospel...how could Paul separate the gospel from baptism if they was the same?

In 1 Cor 1:12-17 Paul never used the noun "baptism" and never said baptism (noun) was not part of the gospel. Paul was talking about the verbs 'baptize' and 'preach'..he was sent not to just baptize but also to preach also..it's an elliptical statement.

Jn 6:27 is another 'not-but' ellipsis..."Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life.."

Jesus is not literally saying not to work or the food to eat, that would violate Christ's own NT in 2 Thess 3:10 just as Paul is not literally saying he was not to baptize for that violates and contradicts Christ's great commission, Mt 28:19,20 when He commissioned Paul to go and baptize.

Jesus was saying not just work for the food to eat but also work for the meat that does not perish as Paul was sent not just to baptize but also preach.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Man you are ate up KENNETH go look the words up.....IGNORANCE and FOOL.......ONE means that you don't know and the other means a graceless wretch......you should get a dictionary and start studying words as it will help you understand a little better!

[h=2][SUP]1[/SUP]fool[/h] noun \ˈfül\: a person who lacks good sense or judgment : a stupid or silly person



[h=2]ig·no·rance[/h] noun \ˈig-n(ə-)rən(t)s\
: a lack of knowledge, understanding, or education : the state of being ignorant



Both definitions show that it is a person who lacks understanding. Rather through knowledge, good sense, judgment, or education.

 

[dcontroversal]

Sorry for jumpin in your convo there. Sincerely, my intention was to ease the debate, lol im not too good at that.

Scripture says one can lose salvation;

New American Standard Bible
The Peril of Falling Away

Heb6 - 1Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. 3And this we will do, if God permits. 4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

Hebrews 10:26-30, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him Who has said: Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says Yahweh. And again: Yahweh will judge His people."

Neither one deal with loosing salvation......do you even know the context and why these things are addressed?

 

[SeaBass]

So if the bible does not teach what you want it to you just add it in?

I always thought NT or OT faith was believing what Gods word said. Good thing you came along to add the things God missed.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Eph 2:8 ---------faith>>>>>>>> saves
Lk 13:3----------repentance>>>>>saves
Mt 10:3233------confession>>>>> saves
MK 16:16 -------baptism >>>>>>>saves


Since there is just one way to be saved then faith MUST include repentance confession and baptism.

No one cannot subtract from God's word by trying to take away from the bible the fact repentance, confession and baptism all save.