Does Anyone Here Teach The Following?
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Think about that statement in context of other things he said before it though. He claims he and the Father are one. He claims that all that the Father gives him will come to him. He claims no one can come to him unless the Father draws them. Those that are given to him and are drawn by the Father he will raise up on the last day and they will have eternal life. He claims that he laid his life down for his sheep. He claims there are sheep not of this fold and he must bring them in as well. He tells the Pharisees that they do not believe because they are not of his sheep, not that they aren't of his sheep because they don't believe. Then he says he will draw all men to him.
When comparing what Jesus taught to how God chose people sovereignly in the Old Testament, and comparing all that to what Paul and the rest of the New Testament teaches, the doctrine of election becomes crystal clear.
Show me where I have been inconsistent or not firm in anything I believe? It is you and your camp making the accusations that I, and others, have learned from Calvin and believe exactly what he believed. I never claimed the title you give me. Nor do you have any clue where I learned what I learned. I just told you. I read my bible from cover to cover and continue to do it.
You arrogance and the way you attempt to liberate people is bordering on Luciferianism.
Just making note of your comments sir. The way you've cast doubt on others salvation here is to be noted. I'm keeping track of your snide remarks to some brothers on here.
You all can bring all the accusations on me you desire, I couldn't care less because they are unfounded, and the accusations are hate filled ad hominem. The thing is you have nothing with which to back your accusations.
On the other hand I'm documenting yours by quoting you. Either keep them coming or put an end to it. Up to you.
Also, in regards to punishment. Mankind sinned against God. Every last one of us. We are guilty collectively and without excuse. Again, man has a will, but it is bound by our nature, and that nature is to sin. We choose, but we choose wrongly. That's our own fault. I would refer you to Romans 9 since Paul addressed the issue:
14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—
All of mankind is condemned already. In his grace, he has chosen some to save, not for them or because of them, or any merit on their part, but ultimately for his own glory and worship.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I believe it n predestination, just not the Calvinistic view, which many call fatalism.
So be careful in putting everyone under a term as all being the same
save it for a novice ace. You were indoctrinated and you know it. You did not learn about how to mock, label defend the faith and try to convert unreformed believers from sitting in the window sill and reading your Bible.
Man up and own something already. I do not know which is worse, your lack of complete disregard for others and what they believe or the fact you have little backbone to owning that you are a die hard in the wool Calvinist Reformer and adhere to all of TULIP.
Indoctrinated by who exactly? I do adhere to TULIP. Said so many times. I am reformed as well. Said so many times. A Calvinist? If that is what you prefer to call me, so be it. I've denied that many times though. I've read maybe 10 pages of all of Calvin's work, if even that many. I haven't got a clue much of what he believes beyond what others say he believes, or quotes by him others post, so...
TULIP I do know however and it is biblical. Is that manned up enough for ya? Or am I still lying?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
one called on the name of the lord because they wanted his salvation...
the other said lord, look at all I have done in your name,
huge difference
Do you have anything factual, some argument against the reformation, verse etc? We can discuss "it" instead of discussing "us".
i agree with you....... i dont think anyone comes out of reading the bible with the 5points tulip........... you wont even pay any atttention to terms or concepts you only read what is there......... i didnt get any idea of predestination nor free will from the bible alone........... alltho i can admit i was already thinking we all had free will before i started reading and i can admit that......... we all have some presuppositions.
Those were not my words they were yours. Actually it is off to iggy land with all of you again.
I simply repeated what God's revealed written Word states plainly: God desires all to come to repentance that none perish, and Jesus draws all men to Himself. The will of man is involved; Jesus invites us to respond, God desires a response in the positive from us. If none can resist the calling as irresistible grace purports, then something does not add up.
I know. But these are not even complete sentences. Every sentence has some context and there are also other sentences on other places and we must take them all into consideration.
"They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for."
This sentence must be true. That God desires all to come to repentence must be true, too.
So what system can we make of it so that both places are true?
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Who does God want to come to repentance though? Who are the all? Who is being addressed in 2 Peter 3?
8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
This is a message to the elect/the church.