Does Anyone Here Teach The Following?

[SovereignGrace]

Why do you deliberately overlook blasphemy???

I didn't overlook blasphemy. Can a person devoid of the Spirit blaspheme the Spirit? I don't know myself, but would think not.

 

[Magenta]

I didn't overlook blasphemy. Can a person devoid of the Spirit blaspheme the Spirit? I don't know myself, but would think not.

Of course they can, and do.

 

[preacher4truth]

Because He uses also His wisdom, not just His character.

Now you're reaching.

Please my brother, you need to study this out, you're going ad lib at this point and arriving at errors.

God is perfect in all His ways and actions. You're divorcing His character from His wisdom to make your scenario fit. Perfect God didn't need to examine options. You are placing God in learning mode, and that is Open Theism, and that is not Omniscience and Omnisapience, it's a truncated version of these and a reduction of God.

 

[Muzungu256]

offtopic time: someone posted the famous romans 10:9 verse about confess Jesus as Lord and you shall be saved but Jesus says not all who say Lord Lord are saved depart workers of iniquity?????????????

 

[Ariel82]

I didn't overlook blasphemy. Can a person devoid of the Spirit blaspheme the Spirit? I don't know myself, but would think not.

Yes, Jesus said the Pharisees did when they accuse him of healing by the power of Satan instead of admitting that he had the Holy Spirit working in Him.

 

[Ariel82]

offtopic time: someone posted the famous romans 10:9 verse about confess Jesus as Lord and you shall be saved but Jesus says not all who say Lord Lord are saved depart workers of iniquity?????????????

Those folks may have confessed with their mouths but they didn't have a saving faith in their hearts...

****

. 8But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”

 

[Demi777]

Anyone who follows that teaching that God creates ppl to send em to hell etc... that person has been eating too much booger.

 

[kaylagrl]

It is only a contradiction and double talk because certain reformers cannot stand with courage and conviction on certain beliefs they say the hold dear like, double predestination, because it is impossible for their spirits to agree that an innocent baby would be sent to hell if the child were not elect.

Other hardcore reformers will tell people to their faces if the child was not elect the child went to hell and then actually ask you to join them for lunch and it is their treat.

The double talk comes from a severe case of insecurity, driven by the constant fear, am I elect or not!?

I was called every name in the book by one here when I said that this kind of fear is demonic. Then told I had no idea what the real fear of the Lord is.

Again not all reformers are like this, so I will not paint them all this way. By and large you know which ones are hardcore by their sheer arrogance and then playing the victim when the threat of being corrected shows up.

Thank you! I kept calling people out on their contradictions and if there are people that God elected there had to be people He damned. You can look through my threads {not for the faint of heart} on the subject where I began to question and certain people went nuclear!! Now I understand why! Your last line makes total sense now.

 

[Ariel82]

John MacArthur believes you are not truly getting eternal life until you submit everything to Christ and make him Lord over all.

This is not found anywhere in the Bible and promotes a works based salvation.

https://www.gty.org/library/articles/A114/an-introduction-to-lordship-salvation

Christ is already Lord over all. We don't make Him Lord by acknowledging that reality....

We stop rebelling and believing lies and accept God's truth that He is already in control of our lives. We submit to His will and His wisdom.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Oh, so everyone's sins have been atoned for? Wow. Do you know what that implies? If everyone's sins are atoned for then all are saved. You'd then be a Universalist with your take on the verse.

Isn't that what the verse says?

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

You don't have to be a Universalist to believe this scripture . . . you can't be a Calvinist and believe this scripture . . . you have to be just a regular ole person who believes in the word of God and knows that salvation is derived through belief in Jesus Christ and that is Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the light. No man comes to the Father but through him and no one comes to the Son unless God draws him . . . God draws all men . . . and they shall all be taught of God. Every man therefore that has heard and has learned of the Father, comes unto me.

 

[Ariel82]

The definition clearly states otherwise:

The Molinist can embrace both God's sovereignty and human free choice.

I not even sure what in the world a molinist is?!?

And I have a feeling I need to look up "open theist" too...

 

[ForthAngel]

offtopic time: someone posted the famous romans 10:9 verse about confess Jesus as Lord and you shall be saved but Jesus says not all who say Lord Lord are saved depart workers of iniquity?????????????

Could be a reference to those who think they follow God but are actually deceived by Satan because they have rejected the truth of who God and Christ are. A lot of people think they follow Christ but are in fact following a counterfeit. Jesus calls those who profess his name and do many miracles in his name workers of lawlessness or iniquity. This chapter sheds some light on the mystery of lawlessness:

2 Thessalonians 2

2 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Some believe the temple in this passage is a building, but the temple was destroyed in AD 70 as per Jesus' prophecy. Paul also writes in other books that the temple of God is our bodies and that is what I think he is talking about in this chapter as well. Notice Jesus calls those who do miracles in his name lawless and here we see the coming of the lawless one (Satan) is with signs and wonders. Counterfeit Christianity. Look today at all the false miracles people chase after in the name of Jesus.

We also know this:

2 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

Hope this helps shed some light on it for you.

 

[Desertsrose]

First of all, as I've made clear a hundred times if I've done it once, is to clarify that I don't really identify as a Calvinist. That is what I'm called by others, as are many of us here. Being a Calvinist also doesn't make someone a disciple of Calvin. Also, could you not understand my post or did you even read it? I clarified my position and the position of most reformed believers. As has been said many, many times already, most reformed believers are reformed because they have read their bibles and come to the realization of certain biblical truths. Most have no clue what Calvin taught beyond TULIP. Some may not even know what TULIP is but are reformed in their beliefs.

Again, in essence, yes, we are all predestined one way or another because all things were predetermined before creation. This is true whether you are on the Arminian or Calvinist side unless you want to deny God's omniscience and throw in your lot with open theists. None were chosen to hell, but God created knowing he would be rejected. God actively changes the nature of some to bring about salvation by his grace while the others are left to their own desires and condemned. God does not cause them to not choose him which is the insinuation by those who say God "elected" some to hell. God only elected to salvation, not hell.

However, God DOES actively harden people who have already rejected him. Pharaoh for example. The reprobates of 2 Thes. 2 as well. Those he gives over to their own desires in Romans 1. There is biblical precedence to support that idea, however, God did not cause these people to reject him nor does he force people to sin, although in his divine sovereignty he does use their rejection and sin to his advantage to accomplish his plans according to his own purpose and will. Joseph being sold into slavery by his brothers, the Assyrian King, and the crucifixion are all examples of man's evil being used by God in a way predetermined by himself for good.

Again you said

More lies about reformed theology. We don't teach that anyone is elected to hell.

I focused on this part of your post. You and others in Kaylas thread called some of us liars without showing us where we lied. And here again you accusing others of lying. Reformed does teach that you're elected for heaven and hell.

It doesn't really matter to me what reformed camp you belong to. And if you don't believe that the lost are elected for hell, okay.

My my response was in reference to you calling people liars. Some here throw that word out like there's no tomorrow. You owe people an apology and need to ask for forgiveness. Grace words are seasoned with salt, but I see no grace at all in your words.

May God be exhalted in this thread and may we glorify the name of Jesus with the fruit of our lips. May the sweet water flow instead of bitterness! Come Lord Jesus and convict us all of the sins of our heart that pours forth from our lips.

In Christs love, amen!

 

[ForthAngel]

Again you said

I focused on this part of your post. You and others in Kaylas thread called some of us liars without showing us where we lied. And here again you accusing others of lying. Reformed does teach that you're elected for heaven and hell.

No, it doesn't. It teaches some are elected to to salvation by grace through faith in Christ. Nothing about being elected to hell whatsoever. Maybe Calvin taught that. I'm not a disciple of Calvin. To say I, and most others here, believe that God elects people to hell is a flat out lie that we have cleared up over and over and over and over and over again. It's getting old.

It doesn't really matter to me what reformed camp you belong to. And if you don't believe that the lost are elected for hell, okay.

My my response was in reference to you calling people liars. Some here throw that word out like there's no tomorrow. You owe people an apology and need to ask for forgiveness. Grace words are seasoned with salt, but I see no grace at all in your words.

I don't owe anyone an apology. Most of our positions have been made clear countless times and Grace777x77 knows exactly what we believe. This isn't his first time around with us. He flat out lied.

May God be exhalted in this thread and may we glorify the name of Jesus with the fruit of our lips. May the sweet water flow instead of bitterness! Come Lord Jesus and convict us all of the sins of our heart that pours forth from our lips.

In Christs love, amen!

 

[Ariel82]

Okay....let's try with using free will vocabulary.....


1. Free willers believe that people have a choice to follow God or end up in hell, yes?

2. Why do some people chose to follow God and others don't?

I know reformed folks say that God grants them (his elect) grace and draws them towards him.

Free will folks say God draws all people.

So free willers, why do some get saved and others don't?

Those who don't chose God,..did God destine them to hell?

 

[preacher4truth]

You and others in Kaylas thread called some of us liars without showing us where we lied.

This isn't true which seems to be the norm around here. Both trofimus and myself have shown in the past were KG had done this by directly quoting her.

 

[preacher4truth]

No, it doesn't. It teaches some are elected to to salvation by grace through faith in Christ. Nothing about being elected to hell whatsoever. Maybe Calvin taught that. I'm not a disciple of Calvin. To say I, and most others here, believe that God elects people to hell is a flat out lie that we have cleared up over and over and over and over and over again. It's getting old.



I don't owe anyone an apology. Most of our positions have been made clear countless times and Grace777x77 knows exactly what we believe. This isn't his first time around with us. He flat out lied.

Agreed. No matter how many times we say it we sill still be lied about. Isn't it interesting bro that g7 defends all heretics abroad, calls them of the body of Christ, defends them as having only a differing opinion, begs for a false unity, wants all to embrace WoF & the Prosperity Gospel, among other false gospels, while all the time never doing this for the Reformed brothers and instead slanders and attacks them?

Yeah. We get it.

 

[ForthAngel]

Could be a reference to those who think they follow God but are actually deceived by Satan because they have rejected the truth of who God and Christ are. A lot of people think they follow Christ but are in fact following a counterfeit. Jesus calls those who profess his name and do many miracles in his name workers of lawlessness or iniquity. This chapter sheds some light on the mystery of lawlessness:

2 Thessalonians 2

2 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Some believe the temple in this passage is a building, but the temple was destroyed in AD 70 as per Jesus' prophecy. Paul also writes in other books that the temple of God is our bodies and that is what I think he is talking about in this chapter as well. Notice Jesus calls those who do miracles in his name lawless and here we see the coming of the lawless one (Satan) is with signs and wonders. Counterfeit Christianity. Look today at all the false miracles people chase after in the name of Jesus.

We also know this:

2 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

Hope this helps shed some light on it for you.

To shed some more light on lawlessness/iniquity:

Matthew 24:
3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” 4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.


9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

 

[ForthAngel]

Agreed. No matter how many times we say it we sill still be lied about. Isn't it interesting bro that g7 defends all heretics abroad, calls them of the body of Christ, defends them as having only a differing opinion, begs for a false unity, wants all to embrace WoF & the Prosperity Gospel, among other false gospels, while all the time never doing this for the Reformed brothers and instead slanders and attacks them?

Yeah. We get it.

Just goes to expose his own deceptive nature and self-deception. He isn't the only one either by far. I'm sure I'll be called a slanderer now for stating a fact.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Who does God want to come to repentance though? Who are the all? Who is being addressed in 2 Peter 3?

8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

This is a message to the elect/the church.

Yes, but wouldn't the church already reach repentance in order to even belong to the church, the body of Christ?

This is written to those who believe and Peter is teaching them concerning scoffers: 4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. v5) But this they are willingly ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord is a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I just love that picture - well, humpf, where is this Jesus Christ you say is coming? Everything is just going on as it always has and I see no evidence of him coming . . . Peter's response is that the word of God created the heavens of old and by God's word, he is now keeping the heavens and earth, reserving the same against the day of judgment. It doesn't matter how long the Lord takes - he is not slack concerning his promise; he is just holding and reserving in his intent to be longsuffering giving everyone the time and chance to come to repentance because he doesn't will for any to perish.

The grace, the love, the mercy, the compassion, the longsuffering of our Lord and God toward sinners, is awe inspiring!