Is biblical truth determined by how we feel about it?
Most here believe that those who are lost will suffer eternal torment, and that it involves burning forever.
Some of those who experience this fate are your mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, cousins, etcetera. Some of them took care of you as a child. They are your friends and your neighbors.
They were not axe murderers or Adolf Hitler. Yet, they failed to place their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.
They will be thrown in the lake of fire, and will suffer everlasting torment, according to the doctrine the vast majority hold.
And, I don't have a problem with this doctrine. I find it credible, and it definitely has Scriptural support. Despite what annihilationists and universalists claim, their views are not irrefutable. There are clear Scriptures in Revelation that indicate eternal torment.
Have you watched the video of the Jordanian pilot dying? He flails in the flames a bit, then just kneels down as his face melts off. Dying by flames is not fun...and what does it mean for this to go on eternally? I don't know.
So, there are distasteful doctrines that the majority of us believe. Yet, somehow we don't don the robes of a judge and decide that God cannot be like that, and that the doctrine is false. Somehow, we know that wouldn't be a right approach concerning eternal punishment; God has a prerogative to do what he wants with the lost.
Yet, when it comes to election, we decide God CANNOT have the prerogative to choose. The Bible CANNOT mean that God chooses regarding salvation.
Somehow, we devise a way to twist the doctrine so that WE CHOOSE. Make no mistake about it. That is what those who reject particular redemption claim. They claim that one's salvation is a result of THEIR CHOICE, and not GOD'S CHOICE. FREE WILL is their idol, and he rules the day.
Be honest with yourself. The view of foreknowledge that Arminians have is simply an attempt to deny that God chooses, and that man chooses. In this view, the person is simply saying, I choose, yet I want to couch it with language that suggest God chooses.
So, are we basically trying to mold God into our own image, defining the parameters of his activity?
By the way, I see the same thing with regards to original sin. There are MANY who claim that original sin cannot be true, or they re-define it to narrow down the effects of Adam's sin. They will NOT accept that Adam's sin is imputed to mankind, even though Romans 5 is clear in mentioning BOTH death AND condemnation came through Adam, and mentions original sin in the SAME CONTEXT as Christ and his righteousness being imputed to the believer (see Romans 5:17-19).
No..it can't be true..because it doesn't align with my god-idol. He thinks just like me, and that is unfair according to my standards. This is the essence of the problem..making a god-idol in our own image. It isn't a lack of theological clarity; it's a matter of the affront that is presented to their god-idol.
Same with God punishing corporate entities for the sin of an individual..for example, when David numbered Israel, God killed 23,000..and was in the process of killing more, and David begs him to stop, because it was HIS sin that caused the death of these people...somehow those who worship the god-idol clasp their hands over their face and say, God cannot be like that...it doesn't align with my expectations of God and his fairness.
I can acknowledge that some things are distasteful and offensive to me as a human, while at the same time acknowledging that God's word is TRUE and that I am NOT God's judge, and I totally trust Him, regardless if his actions attack my human sensitivities. I am not an unfeeling man who doesn't care what happens to those who don't believe. All of God's judgments are righteous, whether I agree with them or not. He didn't ask my opinion on the issue, and he owns all things. He can do what he wants with his things.
What's my major point with this thread? I am not God and I don't judge God. Nor do I create a god-idol that has the same exact judgment that I have on things, so I can avoid him offending me. I think that's what many do..their god-idol determines what can be the meaning of the text, and they cannot read the text for what it says on those topics. They turn Ray Charles on those texts.
Most here believe that those who are lost will suffer eternal torment, and that it involves burning forever.
Some of those who experience this fate are your mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, cousins, etcetera. Some of them took care of you as a child. They are your friends and your neighbors.
They were not axe murderers or Adolf Hitler. Yet, they failed to place their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.
They will be thrown in the lake of fire, and will suffer everlasting torment, according to the doctrine the vast majority hold.
And, I don't have a problem with this doctrine. I find it credible, and it definitely has Scriptural support. Despite what annihilationists and universalists claim, their views are not irrefutable. There are clear Scriptures in Revelation that indicate eternal torment.
Have you watched the video of the Jordanian pilot dying? He flails in the flames a bit, then just kneels down as his face melts off. Dying by flames is not fun...and what does it mean for this to go on eternally? I don't know.
So, there are distasteful doctrines that the majority of us believe. Yet, somehow we don't don the robes of a judge and decide that God cannot be like that, and that the doctrine is false. Somehow, we know that wouldn't be a right approach concerning eternal punishment; God has a prerogative to do what he wants with the lost.
Yet, when it comes to election, we decide God CANNOT have the prerogative to choose. The Bible CANNOT mean that God chooses regarding salvation.
Somehow, we devise a way to twist the doctrine so that WE CHOOSE. Make no mistake about it. That is what those who reject particular redemption claim. They claim that one's salvation is a result of THEIR CHOICE, and not GOD'S CHOICE. FREE WILL is their idol, and he rules the day.
Be honest with yourself. The view of foreknowledge that Arminians have is simply an attempt to deny that God chooses, and that man chooses. In this view, the person is simply saying, I choose, yet I want to couch it with language that suggest God chooses.
So, are we basically trying to mold God into our own image, defining the parameters of his activity?
By the way, I see the same thing with regards to original sin. There are MANY who claim that original sin cannot be true, or they re-define it to narrow down the effects of Adam's sin. They will NOT accept that Adam's sin is imputed to mankind, even though Romans 5 is clear in mentioning BOTH death AND condemnation came through Adam, and mentions original sin in the SAME CONTEXT as Christ and his righteousness being imputed to the believer (see Romans 5:17-19).
No..it can't be true..because it doesn't align with my god-idol. He thinks just like me, and that is unfair according to my standards. This is the essence of the problem..making a god-idol in our own image. It isn't a lack of theological clarity; it's a matter of the affront that is presented to their god-idol.
Same with God punishing corporate entities for the sin of an individual..for example, when David numbered Israel, God killed 23,000..and was in the process of killing more, and David begs him to stop, because it was HIS sin that caused the death of these people...somehow those who worship the god-idol clasp their hands over their face and say, God cannot be like that...it doesn't align with my expectations of God and his fairness.
I can acknowledge that some things are distasteful and offensive to me as a human, while at the same time acknowledging that God's word is TRUE and that I am NOT God's judge, and I totally trust Him, regardless if his actions attack my human sensitivities. I am not an unfeeling man who doesn't care what happens to those who don't believe. All of God's judgments are righteous, whether I agree with them or not. He didn't ask my opinion on the issue, and he owns all things. He can do what he wants with his things.
What's my major point with this thread? I am not God and I don't judge God. Nor do I create a god-idol that has the same exact judgment that I have on things, so I can avoid him offending me. I think that's what many do..their god-idol determines what can be the meaning of the text, and they cannot read the text for what it says on those topics. They turn Ray Charles on those texts.