Does God desire the salvation of all mankind?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
Are gentiles better than any guilty “ Jews “ in your eyes ? if so , consider the same gospel sent to Israel to save them by grace through faith in chrirt the savior after was went to anyone in the world ( gentiles ) to believe with Israel and be saved because they originally rejected it

The house of Israel, actually, is the house of Jacob, (representing all of God's elect family) because God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 32:28). Jesus was in the bloodline of Abraham, but not all of the bloodline of Abraham are children of God.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
Unregerate this and unregenerate that , Unregenerate ? Is that also a newly deemed word by the authority of magical grace ? I only ask
Because I can’t find a definition for that term

Actually, regeneration, and unregenerate is not found in the KJV. I use those terms to indicate the born again, and those who are not reborn. because regeneration is listed twice, once in Matt 19:28 & again in Tit 3:5

Regeneration is defined as "spiritual rebirth".
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Those that have hearing ears. (John 10:26-29)
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
“And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said, The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: and the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:1-10‬ ‭

rsvp

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;


Believing and being baptised are products of the born again, and are not the cause of ones eternal deliverance, but they can deliver the born again as he sojourns here in this world.

Col 1:23, says that the gospel "was" preached to every creature which is under heaven

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The wedding was for Christ and his bride, the church. Those that were not worthy did not have on the wedding garment (a knowledge of God's righteousness)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
True except if you make "having faith in Him" an evidence of salvation and not a condition you met for salvation, if a condition, its a work
When someone calls saving faith "a work" we know that they are so desperate to hang on to their false beliefs that they will call black "white" and white "black" to make their point.

BTW faith in Christ is BOTH an evidence of salvation and a condition of salvation (John 3:36). And faith is THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WORK. The Holy Spirit -- speaking through Paul -- makes this crystal clear in Romans 4:4,5: Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

When Scripture says "his faith is counted for righteousness" it takes us all the way back to Abraham, who believed God and it was IMPUTED to him for righteousness. This was long before he was actually ready to sacrifice Isaac.

Imputed righteousness is so antithetical to the human mind, that even genuine Christians can hardly believe that this is true. The Roman Catholics hate the idea of imputed righteousness and in fact declared a curse on anyone who believed this Gospel truth (in the Council of Trent). But the Calvinists hate the idea that Christ actually died for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD. and God therefore freely offers salvation to "whosoever" will believe in and on the Lord Jesus Christ. Which means that if all would repent and believe, absolutely all would be saved. God does not elect anyone for either salvation or damnation. Election is for an entirely different purpose.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
977
386
63
There are many who claim that God does not desire the salvation of all human beings. But that is simply a lie of the devil. This one verse from Isaiah 45:22 refutes that idea: Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. This is confirmed below in John 3:16,17.

"All the ends of the earth" encompasses the whole world of humanity. Therefore if God were electing people for salvation, He would elect everyone and save everyone. But that is not how God offers salvation to mankind. Instead God wants that the Gospel be preached in all the world and to "every creature". And when the Gospel is preached, those hearing the Gospel must also hear that (1) God now commands all men everywhere to repent and (2) God now commands all men everywhere to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. It is through repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ that sinners are saved from Hell (Acts 20:21).

At the same time God and Christ know that all men will not be saved, because many love darkness rather than light. So what we are seeing today is that evil is triumphing over good, and evil is increasing day by day, while that which is righteous is attacked, rejected and reviled.

Nonetheless, the true Gospel must continue to be propagated, and what it says is this (John 3:1-21;29-36 ). These are the words of Christ Himself as well as His forerunner John the Baptist. So these are the words of God.

1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God...
29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
No grace'r in their right mind refutes the fact that God desires all mankind turn and be saved. We also affirm God desires all mankind to believe, love Him, love His Son, love thy neighbor, be sinless, be sanctified by the Holy Spirit, the list of desires/commands goes on and on.

The question is: does the natural man have the ability to keep these commands? Grace'rs will answer: no.
Proponents of the free will doctrine answer: yes, the natural man can believe.

How you reach this conclusion is the same ole' Pelagian heresy which is derived from faulty deductive reasoning. In a nutshell: If God desires/commands the natural man to believe then the natural man must have the ability to do so. God wouldn't command something man isn't able to do.

However, this reasoning is not biblical, it's in direct opposition to scripture which is built upon God's desire/commands being used to prove man's inability to adhere, ultimately his need for a savior. This command vs. ability dynamic is the entirety of scripture and the gospel.

The free will'er denies scripture, denies the gospel, and supplants God. Some do it out of ignorance and others do it out of hatred for God, either way there's no excuse.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
The question is: does the natural man have the ability to keep these commands?
No. The question is "Do you personally believe what Paul said in Romans 1:16 -- that "THE GOSPEL IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION"? Do you believe that "the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Heb 4:12)? Do you believe that when the true Gospel is preached from the Word of God, the Holy Spirit is right there to convict and to convince everyone? Do you believe that this is precisely why the Lord Jesus Christ commanded His apostles (and the Church) to go into all the world and preach the Gospel to "every creature"? "Every creature" is a "natural man" before they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit is given only to those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38).
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
977
386
63
No. The question is "Do you personally believe what Paul said in Romans 1:16 -- that "THE GOSPEL IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION"? Do you believe that "the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Heb 4:12)? Do you believe that when the true Gospel is preached from the Word of God, the Holy Spirit is right there to convict and to convince everyone? Do you believe that this is precisely why the Lord Jesus Christ commanded His apostles (and the Church) to go into all the world and preach the Gospel to "every creature"? "Every creature" is a "natural man" before they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit is given only to those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38).
You quote my question, refuse to answer it, then ask me 5 questions? Weird.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,145
5,722
113
The house of Israel, actually, is the house of Jacob, (representing all of God's elect family) because God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 32:28). Jesus was in the bloodline of Abraham, but not all of the bloodline of Abraham are children of God.
you didn’t answer but evaded ? That’s good Info but

it’s true jacob was given a new name , Abram was given a new name the hier of Adam also wasnt abel but Seth. What does that have to do with no difference between Jew and gentile in Christ according to judgement ?

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; ( forgive them they don’t know what thier doing )

but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

…“in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile

; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“how that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery, which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭3:3, 5-6‬ ‭

Because they rejected Jesus the messiah sent to save Israel and condemned him to be crucified , gentiles and Jews are Now the same

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The fear of God causes repentance and co side ration of one’s own self it comes when we acknowledge our own eventual time so we want to hear from and follow Jesus ways he said will save our souls “ treat one another like you actually love each other “ sums up his word and is all that’s truly needed

“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m old and still it’s never changed
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,145
5,722
113
The question is:
1. Does the Holy Spirit cause regeneration and belief?
2. Or does man choose to believe first which causes the Holy Spirit to enter and regenerate?


John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Does man control the wind?
A
Jesus does by his word is my point he also says who is saved or not saved by the gospel he sent to all

“And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith? And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭4:39-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

jesus is your answer always and forever
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
977
386
63
A
Jesus does by his word is my point he also says who is saved or not saved by the gospel he sent to all

“And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith? And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭4:39-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

jesus is your answer always and forever
Huh?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,145
5,722
113
No. The question is "Do you personally believe what Paul said in Romans 1:16 -- that "THE GOSPEL IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION"? Do you believe that "the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Heb 4:12)? Do you believe that when the true Gospel is preached from the Word of God, the Holy Spirit is right there to convict and to convince everyone? Do you believe that this is precisely why the Lord Jesus Christ commanded His apostles (and the Church) to go into all the world and preach the Gospel to "every creature"? "Every creature" is a "natural man" before they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit is given only to those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38).

Àmen well said brother

And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace, good will toward men.

And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.
Luke 2:10‭-‬15 KJV
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,145
5,722
113
Actually, regeneration, and unregenerate is not found in the KJV. I use those terms to indicate the born again, and those who are not reborn. because regeneration is listed twice, once in Matt 19:28 & again in Tit 3:5

Regeneration is defined as "spiritual rebirth".

Does it change what Jesus says about being born again or forgiven though?