Does God want us to choose between law and grace?
- Thread starter Blik
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I can take you through this step by step.
Everyone who knows the 10 commandments knows what sin is. It isn't "written" in their hearts and minds by God. It is known intellectually by reading them.
Judaism, Christianity and everyone else who reads the 10 commandments knows what sin is.
Now, lets ask an important question. Is Righteousness attained by these 10 commandments?
No. It isn't.
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
I'm pretty sure you're with me so far.
Now here is where you go off the rails. Let me know what you don't understand...
2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
The epistle of Christ written on fleshy tables of the heart ministered by those who know the New Testament.
Still there, or no?
2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
This is your first clue that what is written on the heart of Christians is NOT the 10 commandments. The Letter Kills but the Spirit gives Life.
These Ministers of the New Testament are telling you that what Christ has written in the Hearts of Christians is not the Letter that kills but the Spirit that gives Life.
2 Corinthians 3:7-9
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
In case you didn't get the first clue in 2 Corinthians 3:6 it is spelled out here very simply.
The Letter that kills is the Ministration of Death written on Stone.
The Spirit that gives Life is the Ministration of Righteousness written on FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART.
You kind of have to follow the clues to get here. Were you able or do you need more explanation?
Everyone who knows the 10 commandments knows what sin is. It isn't "written" in their hearts and minds by God. It is known intellectually by reading them.
Judaism, Christianity and everyone else who reads the 10 commandments knows what sin is.
Now, lets ask an important question. Is Righteousness attained by these 10 commandments?
No. It isn't.
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
I'm pretty sure you're with me so far.
Now here is where you go off the rails. Let me know what you don't understand...
2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
The epistle of Christ written on fleshy tables of the heart ministered by those who know the New Testament.
Still there, or no?
2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
This is your first clue that what is written on the heart of Christians is NOT the 10 commandments. The Letter Kills but the Spirit gives Life.
These Ministers of the New Testament are telling you that what Christ has written in the Hearts of Christians is not the Letter that kills but the Spirit that gives Life.
2 Corinthians 3:7-9
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
In case you didn't get the first clue in 2 Corinthians 3:6 it is spelled out here very simply.
The Letter that kills is the Ministration of Death written on Stone.
The Spirit that gives Life is the Ministration of Righteousness written on FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART.
You kind of have to follow the clues to get here. Were you able or do you need more explanation?
-
1
- Show all
T
There are much simpler clues of course. To say that just by reading the ten commandments brings conviction of sin, the same as the law written on the mind and placed on the heart by the Holy Spirit would, is at best a very shallow understanding of the new covenant, with little discern
This is even more humerous(sadly) the only law God writes in the mind and places in the heart of believers is law he wants to see reflected in your life. And that law will point out sin to you, as grandpa states.
Now grandpa reckons this law is not the ten commandments,
Incidentally, I understood what the ten commandments demanded before I understood what was written concerning them(not possible according to grandpa.
Then we get 2cor3:6-9, once again
Already explained many times, the law written on stone is the letter that kills/the ministry of death and condemnation, whereas under the new covenant the believers sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more, for the law is in their hearts, which means, it is no longer the law of condemnation and death, the letter that kills.
Besides all of that, the Christian is conscious they sin if they break nine of the ten commandments as written, and grandpa states, the law shows you your sin
This is even more humerous(sadly) the only law God writes in the mind and places in the heart of believers is law he wants to see reflected in your life. And that law will point out sin to you, as grandpa states.
Now grandpa reckons this law is not the ten commandments,
Incidentally, I understood what the ten commandments demanded before I understood what was written concerning them(not possible according to grandpa.
Then we get 2cor3:6-9, once again
Already explained many times, the law written on stone is the letter that kills/the ministry of death and condemnation, whereas under the new covenant the believers sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more, for the law is in their hearts, which means, it is no longer the law of condemnation and death, the letter that kills.
Besides all of that, the Christian is conscious they sin if they break nine of the ten commandments as written, and grandpa states, the law shows you your sin
-
2
- Show all
T
I belong to this cult:
The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16 ‘This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’[b]
17 Then he adds:
‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.’[c]
Heb10:15-17
Christians are conscioius of sin because of the law is placed within them. And at least 99 percent of Christians would be conscious of sin if they transgress nine of the TC as written, NOT(NOT) because they firstly read what is written in ink. The law is not written in ink for the believer(2Cor3:3) it is written on tablets of human hearts by the Spirit of the living God.
Why not try the new covenant sometime, and also try reading the bible as one cohesive whole, not just cherry picking certain scriptures over another
And once again(for you are blind to this) there is no righteousness of works of the law, for the believers sins will be remembered no more.
The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16 ‘This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’[b]
17 Then he adds:
‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.’[c]
Heb10:15-17
Christians are conscioius of sin because of the law is placed within them. And at least 99 percent of Christians would be conscious of sin if they transgress nine of the TC as written, NOT(NOT) because they firstly read what is written in ink. The law is not written in ink for the believer(2Cor3:3) it is written on tablets of human hearts by the Spirit of the living God.
Why not try the new covenant sometime, and also try reading the bible as one cohesive whole, not just cherry picking certain scriptures over another
And once again(for you are blind to this) there is no righteousness of works of the law, for the believers sins will be remembered no more.
-
1
- Show all
T
One thing you can always guarantee on these websites is, no matter how much error a person is shown to have, they will always keep coming back with something.
But then again, many sadly do not live under the new covenant, or their head theology refuses to accept it.
I will yet again repeat, at least 99 percent of Christians would be conscious of sin if they transgress nine of the TC as written. And as Grandpa correctly states: The law points out sin. And the law is not written in ink for the believer, Paul tells us that, confirming the new covenant, it is written in the hearts of believers
But then again, many sadly do not live under the new covenant, or their head theology refuses to accept it.
I will yet again repeat, at least 99 percent of Christians would be conscious of sin if they transgress nine of the TC as written. And as Grandpa correctly states: The law points out sin. And the law is not written in ink for the believer, Paul tells us that, confirming the new covenant, it is written in the hearts of believers
-
1
-
1
- Show all
I'm not sure what your disconnect is but it is very common in cults that arise from Hebrew Roots and SDA and some other 10 commandment focusing cults.
I'm still trying to figure yours out. I'm wondering if you are trying to start your own brand new cult.
Have you thought about what you would name it?
Probably not Hebrew Roots. That ones already taken.
Maybe the New Old Testament Church of Stone (Not of Condemnation) (But really it is).
I'm still trying to figure yours out. I'm wondering if you are trying to start your own brand new cult.
Have you thought about what you would name it?
Probably not Hebrew Roots. That ones already taken.
Maybe the New Old Testament Church of Stone (Not of Condemnation) (But really it is).
-
2
- Show all
If I was to start my own cult I would name it Thank You Lord Jesus.
My cult would be the best.
Instead of requiring tithes we would ask for voluntary giving and then the people of our cult would be the first ones we would ask if they needed basic things like shelter, food, clothing.
Then we would build apartments and food and clothing places for those in need.
We would teach people about Thank You Lord Jesus everywhere we went.
My cult would be the best.
Instead of requiring tithes we would ask for voluntary giving and then the people of our cult would be the first ones we would ask if they needed basic things like shelter, food, clothing.
Then we would build apartments and food and clothing places for those in need.
We would teach people about Thank You Lord Jesus everywhere we went.
-
1
- Show all
T
That would be a wonderful cult, but if the people in it were not conscious of sin through the law written in their hearts and minds, rather than the law written in ink I doubt it would help them much concerning eternity. And lets repeat, at least 99 percent of believers would be conscious they sinned if they broke nine of the TC as written
Possibly the 99 percent are not as gifted as a few on the internet. Hmmmm
Possibly the 99 percent are not as gifted as a few on the internet. Hmmmm
No. We would teach them REAL Christianity.
We would teach that what the Lord Jesus Christ writes in our Hearts makes us conscious of Righteousness.
In direct juxtaposition to the 10 commandments which makes people conscious of their sin.
Just like 2 Corinthians 3 shows.
Have you read it yet? Its pretty good.
I know it teaches against your cult a little bit but maybe you could scratch the idea for your first cult and maybe think about building a new one?
Just an idea.
We would teach that what the Lord Jesus Christ writes in our Hearts makes us conscious of Righteousness.
In direct juxtaposition to the 10 commandments which makes people conscious of their sin.
Just like 2 Corinthians 3 shows.
Have you read it yet? Its pretty good.
I know it teaches against your cult a little bit but maybe you could scratch the idea for your first cult and maybe think about building a new one?
Just an idea.
-
1
- Show all
T
So it appears a few on the nternet do not believe over 99 percent of those who go to church understand real Christianity. Only a select few who come on the internet to share their wisdom with others truly understand
Yeah, 2Cor3 shows us the law is not written on tablets of stone but tablets of human hearts. So I guess over 99 percent of Christians do not have the law in their hearts, only on tablets of stone. You have to wonder what the less than one percent are doing on the internet, if they knew more than everyone else, surely they would be out in the real worlds evangelising the truth only a few of them apparently know.
As for 2Cor3:6-9, it has been addressed so ,many times now
Yeah, 2Cor3 shows us the law is not written on tablets of stone but tablets of human hearts. So I guess over 99 percent of Christians do not have the law in their hearts, only on tablets of stone. You have to wonder what the less than one percent are doing on the internet, if they knew more than everyone else, surely they would be out in the real worlds evangelising the truth only a few of them apparently know.
As for 2Cor3:6-9, it has been addressed so ,many times now
T
So there we have it. The 99 percent do not know, or are not blessed with as much knowledge as the less than one percent are on the internet. Tis amusing at times on the internet, but also tragic.
Of course, if the 99 percent have the moral law in their hearts, and know they have no righteousness of obeying it, I think they would know more than the few on the internet who only have a cherry picked bible.
For instance, I have never been given a response to Paul stating:
Do we make void the law through faith? God forbid, yea, we establish the law Rom3:31
Or Jesus words that he did not come to abolish the law
Of course, if the 99 percent have the moral law in their hearts, and know they have no righteousness of obeying it, I think they would know more than the few on the internet who only have a cherry picked bible.
For instance, I have never been given a response to Paul stating:
Do we make void the law through faith? God forbid, yea, we establish the law Rom3:31
Or Jesus words that he did not come to abolish the law
I could tell you what Paul is saying in Rom 3:31 and what the Lord Jesus meant when He said He did not come to abolish the law.
But if you don't understand the simplicity of 2 Cor 3 how will you go on to even more complicated matters?
P.S. The 99 percent really aren't that brilliant.
Matthew 7:13-14
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
But if you don't understand the simplicity of 2 Cor 3 how will you go on to even more complicated matters?
P.S. The 99 percent really aren't that brilliant.
Matthew 7:13-14
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
-
1
- Show all
T
I see, so the 99 percent of those who go to church are not as brilliant as the less than one percent who come on the internet. If everyone on this website took seriously what is being stated here, I would feel a fool for being here, I kid you not. I see there was no response to the scriptures mentioned.
As for 2cor3:6-9 it must have been responded to at least half a dozen times, but I guess AI am just one of the 99 percent who is not as smart as eternally grateful and grandpa
As for 2cor3:6-9 it must have been responded to at least half a dozen times, but I guess AI am just one of the 99 percent who is not as smart as eternally grateful and grandpa