Does Jesus' Second Coming begin in Revelation Chapter 18?

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May 13, 2016
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#41
The coming of Christ occurs at the seventh trumpet...

Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"
Rev. 11 is a Parenthetical Citation chapter, meaning its not REAL TIME. This should be obvious, we see the Two-witnesses die just after the 2nd Woe (6th Trump) ends and just before the 7th Trump or 3rd Woe begins by the sounding of the 7th Trump.

Well, we see Woes #1 and #2 in Rev. 9, so that should tell you its not REAL TIME per se. Thus when the 7th Trump blows that ends nothing, its not even the real time story, that ca be seen in Rev. 15&16 which are really one chapter. The 7 Vials ARE the 3rd Woe. Remember in Rev. 11 it says the 3rd Woe cometh quickly? So, why do we get Parenthetical Citation Chapters? Because that is how God wanted to write the book pf Revelation, He wanted to confuse the world about what was coming, but not his followers per se who could dig out the true answers and meanings.

Everything from Rev. 2 to Rev. 9 runs in perfect chronological order, then we skip to Rev. 16 really 15 and 16 go together. If you look in the first part of Rev. 8 you will see why, the Angels readied the Sounding of the Trumps, then started sounding them or blowing them. In Rev. 15 they do likewise, they ready the Pouring Out of the Vials, then pour them out in Rev. 16.

So, God's Wrath only runs out over three chapters. Rev. 8, 9 and 16. Rev. 6 are not Judgment Seals, they Seal up God's Judgments, only as the 7th Seal is loosed over in Rev. 8 does Gods wrath begin to fall.

So, Rev. 8,9 THEN 16, every other chapter is a Parenthetical Citation Chapter, meaning that during this 42 months of Wrath, OTHER THINGS were also going on at the same time, however, God chooses not to be them in the Three Wrath Chapters, but instead to make SPECIFIC CHAPTERS or PASSAGES for them to detail them in a different way. They almost all match the 1260 days or 42 months of God's Wrath.

The Rev. 10 MYSTERY of the 7 Thunders, I contend thus is simply the 7 Trumps and God telling John not to write down everything he saw but to write it down in mysterious form instead, and them Good provided the unique jargon. After the 7th Thunder Sounds time [as we have known it] will be no more.

Rev. 11 is a SPECIFIC chapter about the 1260 days of the Two-witnesses ministry, however that ministry starts BEFORE the Beast comes to power, you know how we know that? Simple Math, both have 1260 day Ordained by God Offices right? So, since the Two-witnesses die at the 2nd Woe and the Beast dies at the 7th Vial (end of 3rd Woe) what does simple math tell us? That the Two-witnesses MUST SHOW UP before the Beast becomes the Beast because their 1260 days Ordinations do not match. I contend they are the 1335 Blessing unto Israel, and thus show up BEFFORE the DOTL just as Malachi 4:5 says. Also, in Zech 13:8-9 we see 1/3 of Israel repents then in the very next verse we see the DOTL arrives (Zech 14:1) So, the Two-witnesses job is to get Israel to repent before God's Wrath falls. When they do so, then their mission turns to praying down God's Wrath, like Moses foretold God's Wrath to the Egyptians. As the 7th Trump sounds, their mission is COMPLETE, thus God allows them to die for only one reason (the do not really die, they have Glorious Bodies) so their 1260 day ministry can be juxtaposed against the Beasts 1260 day "Ministry" as The Beast. We can thus understand all the TIMELINES. The Two-witnesses show up 75 days before the Beast and "die" 75 days before he dies. 1335 - 1260 = 75. The NUMBERS in Dan. 12 are all that many specific days until ALL THESE WONDERS END (by Jesu at the 2nd coming).

Rev. 12 is not complicated like Rev. 11, Satan chases Israel (the Woman) for 1260 days.

Rev. 13 is the Beast ruling over Israel & THE MANY fir 1260 days. (The SAME TIME as Rev. 8, 9 and 16)

Rev. 14 covers the full 7 years in that all three Harvests must be shown. The 144,000 = All Israel or 5 million seeing as Zech. 13:8-9 says 1/3 will repent (144,000 is a CODE). The Wicked Grapes get Gods Wrath which really happens in Rev. 16:19 in real time. And in Rev. 14:14 we see a FLASH BACK to the Pre Trib. Rapture (you, I, or others understandings of this means nothing to God per se). Thus Rev. 14 is the HARVEST CHAPTER s designated by God's descriptions.

Rev. 17 is the Harlot chapter, it explains how the Beast and 10 kings kill her off, the Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time. The Harlot (False Religions) always rode the backs of the Beast as Rev. 17:7 shows us, but on this last Beast's Watch, his 10 Kings (The E.U.) forbid all Religions save Beast Worship, they this means the Kill her off. This happens over a 42 month period, how do we know this? The 10 Kings rule ONE HOUR with the Beast (Rev. 17:12) who we know rules 42 months.

Rev. 18 is the WHOLE WORLD (Babylon) being Judged by God via his 7 Trumpet Judgments which of course last 42 months. Rev. 16:19 shows us that those whom Jesus defeats at Armageddon God calls Babylon the Great (simple right, lol). Babylon falls when Satan falls, Babylon means CONFUSION, and what an apt description, as Satan got the whole world (see Vial #6 the kings of the WHOLE WORLD go to fight against Almighty God at Armageddon) to try and fight their own loving Creator. That is what I call Babylon the Great. Babylon in verses 8 and 10 is Judged on ONE HOUR and in ONE DAY, we see in Rev. 17:12 how ONE HOUR means 42 month, well the Day of the Lord also means 42 months.

Rev. 19 is the Marriage to the Lamb and the Marriage Supper Chapter. Thus it also like Rev. 14 must cover the full 7 years, because we ae seen Marrying the Lamb, then returning with him to Armageddon which is the "Marriage Supper" where we feast on our enemies. (The Revenge asked for in Seal #5)

The rest of the chapters (20, 21 and 22 are the Hereafter, and Ever-after eternity spent with God.
 
Jan 15, 2025
134
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#42
Rev. 11 is a Parenthetical Citation chapter, meaning its not REAL TIME. This should be obvious, we see the Two-witnesses die just after the 2nd Woe (6th Trump) ends and just before the 7th Trump or 3rd Woe begins by the sounding of the 7th Trump.

Well, we see Woes #1 and #2 in Rev. 9, so that should tell you its not REAL TIME per se. Thus when the 7th Trump blows that ends nothing, its not even the real time story, that ca be seen in Rev. 15&16 which are really one chapter. The 7 Vials ARE the 3rd Woe. Remember in Rev. 11 it says the 3rd Woe cometh quickly? So, why do we get Parenthetical Citation Chapters? Because that is how God wanted to write the book pf Revelation, He wanted to confuse the world about what was coming, but not his followers per se who could dig out the true answers and meanings.

Everything from Rev. 2 to Rev. 9 runs in perfect chronological order, then we skip to Rev. 16 really 15 and 16 go together. If you look in the first part of Rev. 8 you will see why, the Angels readied the Sounding of the Trumps, then started sounding them or blowing them. In Rev. 15 they do likewise, they ready the Pouring Out of the Vials, then pour them out in Rev. 16.

So, God's Wrath only runs out over three chapters. Rev. 8, 9 and 16. Rev. 6 are not Judgment Seals, they Seal up God's Judgments, only as the 7th Seal is loosed over in Rev. 8 does Gods wrath begin to fall.
Pretty detailed explanation. After the seventh trumpet (third woe), I see Rev. 11:19 summarizing the beginning (Rev. 15:5) and end (Rev. 16:18, 21) of the seven vials in Rev. 15-16. In other words, I see Rev. 8, 9, 10, 11 are chronological, and Rev. 15-16 later expands on what happens in Rev. 11:19.

Revelation 11:19 ESV Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.

Revelation 15:5 After this I looked, and the sanctuary of the tent of witness in heaven was opened,
Revelaton 16:18 And there were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, and a great earthquake such as there had never been since man was on the earth, so great was that earthquake. ... 21 And great hailstones, about one hundred pounds each, fell from heaven on people; and they cursed God for the plague of the hail, because the plague was so severe.

So, Rev. 8,9 THEN 16, every other chapter is a Parenthetical Citation Chapter, meaning that during this 42 months of Wrath, OTHER THINGS were also going on at the same time, however, God chooses not to be them in the Three Wrath Chapters, but instead to make SPECIFIC CHAPTERS or PASSAGES for them to detail them in a different way. They almost all match the 1260 days or 42 months of God's Wrath.
I think Rev. 12-14 could be considered a new series of visions that describe more about the 1260 days and 42 months mentioned in Rev. 11:2-3.

The Rev. 10 MYSTERY of the 7 Thunders, I contend thus is simply the 7 Trumps and God telling John not to write down everything he saw but to write it down in mysterious form instead, and them Good provided the unique jargon. After the 7th Thunder Sounds time [as we have known it] will be no more.
I don't think they are the 7 trumpets, but I think it is hard to know what they are.

Rev. 11 is a SPECIFIC chapter about the 1260 days of the Two-witnesses ministry, however that ministry starts BEFORE the Beast comes to power, you know how we know that? Simple Math, both have 1260 day Ordained by God Offices right? So, since the Two-witnesses die at the 2nd Woe and the Beast dies at the 7th Vial (end of 3rd Woe) what does simple math tell us? That the Two-witnesses MUST SHOW UP before the Beast becomes the Beast because their 1260 days Ordinations do not match. I contend they are the 1335 Blessing unto Israel, and thus show up BEFFORE the DOTL just as Malachi 4:5 says. Also, in Zech 13:8-9 we see 1/3 of Israel repents then in the very next verse we see the DOTL arrives (Zech 14:1) So, the Two-witnesses job is to get Israel to repent before God's Wrath falls. When they do so, then their mission turns to praying down God's Wrath, like Moses foretold God's Wrath to the Egyptians. As the 7th Trump sounds, their mission is COMPLETE, thus God allows them to die for only one reason (the do not really die, they have Glorious Bodies) so their 1260 day ministry can be juxtaposed against the Beasts 1260 day "Ministry" as The Beast. We can thus understand all the TIMELINES. The Two-witnesses show up 75 days before the Beast and "die" 75 days before he dies. 1335 - 1260 = 75. The NUMBERS in Dan. 12 are all that many specific days until ALL THESE WONDERS END (by Jesu at the 2nd coming).
I think the two witnesses and the beast are active at the same time. The extra 75 days is based on the 1335 days, but the beast could die many days before the end of the 1335 days. I think that 1260 days and 42 months are round numbers, and that the 7th trumpet/3rd woe/7 vials don't take many days to finish (Rev. 10:7 says "days " of the trumpet call), so the end of the 2nd woe and the end of the 3rd woe need not be 75 days apart.

Rev. 12 is not complicated like Rev. 11, Satan chases Israel (the Woman) for 1260 days.

Rev. 13 is the Beast ruling over Israel & THE MANY fir 1260 days. (The SAME TIME as Rev. 8, 9 and 16)
agree

Rev. 14 covers the full 7 years in that all three Harvests must be shown. The 144,000 = All Israel or 5 million seeing as Zech. 13:8-9 says 1/3 will repent (144,000 is a CODE). The Wicked Grapes get Gods Wrath which really happens in Rev. 16:19 in real time. And in Rev. 14:14 we see a FLASH BACK to the Pre Trib. Rapture (you, I, or others understandings of this means nothing to God per se). Thus Rev. 14 is the HARVEST CHAPTER s designated by God's descriptions.
yes, harvest. I think the saints who are patient in Rev. 14:12 and blessed in 14:13 are the same saints who will be raptured in Rev. 14:14-16.

Rev. 17 is the Harlot chapter, it explains how the Beast and 10 kings kill her off, the Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time. The Harlot (False Religions) always rode the backs of the Beast as Rev. 17:7 shows us, but on this last Beast's Watch, his 10 Kings (The E.U.) forbid all Religions save Beast Worship, they this means the Kill her off. This happens over a 42 month period, how do we know this? The 10 Kings rule ONE HOUR with the Beast (Rev. 17:12) who we know rules 42 months.

Rev. 18 is the WHOLE WORLD (Babylon) being Judged by God via his 7 Trumpet Judgments which of course last 42 months. Rev. 16:19 shows us that those whom Jesus defeats at Armageddon God calls Babylon the Great (simple right, lol). Babylon falls when Satan falls, Babylon means CONFUSION, and what an apt description, as Satan got the whole world (see Vial #6 the kings of the WHOLE WORLD go to fight against Almighty God at Armageddon) to try and fight their own loving Creator. That is what I call Babylon the Great. Babylon in verses 8 and 10 is Judged on ONE HOUR and in ONE DAY, we see in Rev. 17:12 how ONE HOUR means 42 month, well the Day of the Lord also means 42 months.
One hour could refer to 42 months in Rev. 17:12. To me it simply means a short time in Rev. 17:12, similar to another short time in Rev. 17:10. But I don't think it means 42 months every time it appears in Revelation. I also disagree that the Day of the Lord means 42 months. If the Harlot is All false religion, then beast worship should be included, since that is a false religion. You don't think Babylon is the same as the Harlot (Rev. 17:5)? They both commit sexual immorality and are burned.

Rev. 19 is the Marriage to the Lamb and the Marriage Supper Chapter. Thus it also like Rev. 14 must cover the full 7 years, because we ae seen Marrying the Lamb, then returning with him to Armageddon which is the "Marriage Supper" where we feast on our enemies. (The Revenge asked for in Seal #5)
Based on your timeline, Rev. 19:2-3 can only be at most 42 months before the second coming, not 7 years, because Babylon was destroyed at the 7th vial and you think it took 42 months. (But I think Rev. 19:2-3 is at the end of the 7 years). Yes, there is vengeance.

The rest of the chapters (20, 21 and 22 are the Hereafter, and Ever-after eternity spent with God.
Sure