Does man have a freewill ?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 18, 2021
6,983
2,189
113
#41
Did The Elohim create mankind without free will? If the answer is no; then why this spiritual mess in Todays' world?
Deepseeker
Amen,

How do we answer the person who questions all the evil in the world. And why does God allow it. Unless we answer the free will question.

We can't.
 
Dec 18, 2021
6,983
2,189
113
#43
It seems to me that man has a free will up to the point that it is in opposition to the will of God. At that point, the desires of man are dashed or redirected to produce the outcome desired by God. Acts 9:3-6
so Adolf hitler killing millions and destroying all these cities was Gods will?

the man who took a 5 year old from his or her parents and brutally raped them and killed them is Gods will?

the man who kind naps a woman or man, and puts them in basically a prison to do what he wants with them (rape, pain, suffering. torture) is Gods will?

say it is not so
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,920
2,439
113
#44
The day I awoke to His reality was marked by a small, scraggly garden I had. I think they were marigolds (probably a feeble attempt to keep mosquitos away. They were yellow anyway. The little bunch grew in, strangely, in the shape of a J (that always brought "Jesus" to mind when I looked at it), except I found even more peculiar that it was an undersized "j," with a little dot on top, and the smallest jot is currently occurring to me... That's how He came to us.
 
Dec 18, 2021
6,983
2,189
113
#45
But you claim a person is awaken when God draws them. But if they can reject or accept after being drawn according to your beliefs they are awaken doing it. That makes it free will if they've been awakened.
only if they can also still reject him.

which I do not believe a reformed person would say.. because they claim the regeneration and faith comes at the same instant.. so there is no time to even reject.
 
Dec 18, 2021
6,983
2,189
113
#48
because once again man is not neutral. man is enslaved to sin. that is why. just like a dog who loves to eat treats will not choose to not eat em.
being enslaved to sin, and being able to know your guilty and understand Gods provision to be freed from that guilt are two different things.

God had moses put a bronze serpent out for all the people in the wilderness. The ability for all of them was there to not only get saved, but to trust God.

But only those who trusted looked and were saved.

Jesus said in the same manner he was hung on a cross. so whoever believed would be saved. born again, pass from condemnation to a state of no longer being condemned, and they ill live forever.
 
Dec 18, 2021
6,983
2,189
113
#49
Scripture says those given to Jesus by God WILL come to Him. Doesn't really look like there is wiggle room, there.


John 6 verse 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
:)
look up the whole passage..

John 6:
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

we can not remove see and believe from the equation.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,920
2,439
113
#51
jesus manifested in the lowercase, the smallest letter 'yod,' the son of man, giving himself as mediator between his Father's will, and yours.
 
Nov 21, 2020
7,063
685
113
#54
Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


In vs 18, the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to hold back, to restrain.

In vs 19, we see what it is that men restrain ... that which may be known of God ... for God showed it to them. God reveals Himself, His truth, and that truth, that revelation is suppressed and restrained. So it is mankind who restrains. It is not God Who withholds.

In vs 20, God's eternal power and Godhead is suppressed, restrained, rejected and that is why they are without excuse.

There is no excuse come judgment day.
.
Nothing about them being drawn by trees and mountains lol
 
Jul 3, 2015
64,855
33,034
113
#57
look up the whole passage..

John 6:
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

we can not remove see and believe from the equation.
You said: we can not remove see and believe from the equation.

Has someone tried to?
.:unsure:
 
Sep 2, 2020
15,905
6,394
113
#59
If man's will is not morally free, then God is responsible for evil and would warrant hell,
so be careful not to interpret Scripture in a way that blasphemes God's righteousness.
Amen By genesis 6 it’s clear that man has parted from Gods Will with thier dominion on earth and corrupted it

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion

…… And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:27-28, 31‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-7‬ ‭

it’s like saying God created man just to turn them evil and destroy them after blaming them all for it ……such a bizarre way to escape accountability “ I have no free Will I can’t choose between good and evil therefore I can’t be held accountable justly for my actions “

But….

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God holds people accountable for thier deeds that they themselves do but …..if they don’t have any choice in the matter and no free Will to choose right and wrong then how are we judged according to what we do and say ?


Or even how is one tempted of they don’t have an independent Will of thier own ? Why is Satan tempting them to do evil ? If they’re already bound to do it and have no choice or chance of choosing the good ?

without free will the Bible’s story makes no sense . people being judged justly according to what they do and say makes no sense . It would mean god caused them to do evil then punished them for doing evil after war I g them not to again and again , offering them false choices all along the way that they could never have chosen

offering them false hope “ just repent and do what’s right and you’ll be accepted “ he said ….but really they had no choice they weren’t capable of choosing the good

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God isn’t that way he doesn’t offer people false choices and false hope he tells them the truth and calls them To repent and believe him and live