Does satan hide The Way to the Tree of Life? Do Cherubim hide the Tree itself?
- Thread starter pittsburghjoe
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Of course, why did He bother telling us about the keys unless He won the battle? It was always in the plan. You act like satan wasn't a problem here.
ezekiel 28
This is what the Sovereign Lord says: ezekiel 28
“‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
Here we see lucifer being good from the start and one that held knowledge and maybe was in charge of the tree of knowledge
13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
Here we see that the Garden of eden was a spiritual realm
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.[b]
Your settings and mountings[c] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
Here we see Lucifer being given the role as a protecter in the Garden of God at first untill he was expelled and threw to earth
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
Here we see lucifer corruting wisdom which could mean he corrupted the tree of knowledge also, maybe this is why God commanded adam and eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge, Because lucifer who was by the looks of things, was in charge of keeping wisdom, corrupted his own wisdom and the tree of knowledge.
my understanding here is the both the tree of knowledge and lucifer where good at first and posed no threat to mankind untill lucifer a high ranking Guardian rebelled
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
Here we see lucifer being thrown to earth and expelled from the garden of eden.
This more than suggests that the garden of eden was a spiritual realm and that the rebellion and sin started in heaven first and not earth.
I think this scripture reveals exactly what happend in the Garden of eden. The garden of eden must have been a spiritual realm and a direct highway to heaven.
A spiritual realm that once existed on earth.
Genesis 3:22 22And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
Here we see what happened after they ate from the tree of knowledge.
This proves that the sin of disobedience by adam and eve was not the main issue.
the main issue was what happened to them after they ate from the tree of knowledge.
This problem of people behaving like Gods became wide spread and through out history there is many many counts of people behaving like Gods.
Or people claiming to be God the messiah.
so for me when adam and eve ate from the tree of knowledge something they ate from the tree corrupted and poisened them so much so it stayed in there blood and mind, which has effected the whole of mankind. Adam and eve where the first and we are all related.
This is what the Sovereign Lord says: ezekiel 28
“‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
Here we see lucifer being good from the start and one that held knowledge and maybe was in charge of the tree of knowledge
13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
Here we see that the Garden of eden was a spiritual realm
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.[b]
Your settings and mountings[c] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
Here we see Lucifer being given the role as a protecter in the Garden of God at first untill he was expelled and threw to earth
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
Here we see lucifer corruting wisdom which could mean he corrupted the tree of knowledge also, maybe this is why God commanded adam and eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge, Because lucifer who was by the looks of things, was in charge of keeping wisdom, corrupted his own wisdom and the tree of knowledge.
my understanding here is the both the tree of knowledge and lucifer where good at first and posed no threat to mankind untill lucifer a high ranking Guardian rebelled
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
Here we see lucifer being thrown to earth and expelled from the garden of eden.
This more than suggests that the garden of eden was a spiritual realm and that the rebellion and sin started in heaven first and not earth.
I think this scripture reveals exactly what happend in the Garden of eden. The garden of eden must have been a spiritual realm and a direct highway to heaven.
A spiritual realm that once existed on earth.
Genesis 3:22 22And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
Here we see what happened after they ate from the tree of knowledge.
This proves that the sin of disobedience by adam and eve was not the main issue.
the main issue was what happened to them after they ate from the tree of knowledge.
This problem of people behaving like Gods became wide spread and through out history there is many many counts of people behaving like Gods.
Or people claiming to be God the messiah.
so for me when adam and eve ate from the tree of knowledge something they ate from the tree corrupted and poisened them so much so it stayed in there blood and mind, which has effected the whole of mankind. Adam and eve where the first and we are all related.
So, the tempter was a cherub ..lucifer. When God placed cherubim to guard the Tree of Life ..it probably didn't include lucifer. I think all cherubim have the ability to cause illusions ..to guard. lucifer was "ordained", so he has power here. Can satan deceive because he had the ability/free will as a cherub?
You are saying lucifer turned wisdom into death. We had to hand over our spiritual keys to participate. I wonder if Adam and Eve had any memory of the Garden after falling.
Ezekiel 28:16-17
By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Isaiah 14:12 (KJV) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
via crossnote
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
Are these combined saying lucifer was a covering cherub and "son of the morning!" has something to do with stones of fire?
Does "covering" mean he is hiding something ..like the Truth?
I dont know exactly what happend as much as you dont know or anyone else for that matter.
Theses scriptures leave much mystery and go very deep.
We have a saviour now in Jesus who defeated death. And i do believe death was indeed lucifer yes.
Whether he corrupted the wisdom of the tree of knowledge into the tree death i dont know. it could have happened i feal strongly something like that happened.
Whats more important is the eternal plan now in place to save all mankind.
another translation into our Babel-infected language of 'mansions' is 'rooms'
and this makes a lot of sense, because Christ is using specific Hebrew betrothal/wedding ceremony language here. the groom would go and prepare a place in his fathers household for his betrothed bride. that's what Jesus is doing now; we are His bride & He is our Husband ((husband-to-be, but in Hebrew custom, anyone 'engaged to be married' is spoken and thought of as though the already are))
perhaps there was a 'mineral Eden' before the 'vegetable Eden' - with Satan being the prince of it, as Adam was prince over the creation we live in. and perhaps this, and Satan's sin, is why we begin Genesis 1:2 with an earth covered by water, like it was in Genesis 6.
the veil mentioned is a reference to the flesh the flesh is a veil stopping us from seeing the truth
“By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God;”
Hebrews 10:20-21
Christ entered into heaven by passing through the veil of flesh and blood he didn’t need to , but for our sakes who are on the wrong side of the veil he did it
when we pass away from our body , we’re passing through a veil that’s been keeping us in the dark . Our eyes will be opened that day and we will see in full
the flesh is part of the dying creation and became the enemy to our spirit
“For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
Galatians 5:17 KJV
This want Gods design for us but the flesh was turned against man a long time ago when man partook of the conflicting knowledge of good and evil
“And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
Genesis 6:3 KJV
The veil is lifted when we overcome the flesh whether in this world or when we part from it . The flesh is the part of us that doesn’t belong to the kingdom
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
Our flesh isn’t part of salvation because it’s corrupt
“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
1 Corinthians 15:50 KJV
When we part from the flesh were passing through a veil that divides heaven and earth , the spiritual reality from the natural illusion
When Christ died and rose up he left this world and ent into heaven , he passed through the veil of his flesh like we will do eventually into his kingdom
So how does the Cherubim fit in? Do they have something to do with flesh?
Is the Ark of the Covenant symbolizing the cherubim guarding the Tree of Life?
2Ki 19:15
Then Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said: “O LORD God of Israel, the One who dwells between the cherubim, You are God, You alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth. You have made heaven and earth.
2Ch 5:8
For the cherubim spread their wings over the place of the ark, and the cherubim overshadowed the ark and its poles.
Eze 10:3
Now the cherubim were standing on the south side of the temple when the man went in, and the cloud filled the inner court.
Eze 41:18
And it was made with cherubims and palm trees, so that a palm tree was between a cherub and a cherub; and every cherub had two faces;
Eze 41:20
From the ground unto above the door were cherubims and palm trees made, and on the wall of the temple.
If the temple is inside us, is it saying we have good and evil?
If satan was a "covering cherub" in Ezekiel 28:16 of the OT, could lucifer have been a top cherub guarding the Tree of Life? Did both his faces turn evil?
Can the Tree of Life be guarded by hiding it with cherubim?
Are cherubim the reason a fallen condition can not see the Kingdom of God?
Exo 25:22
“And there I will meet with you, and I will speak with you from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim which are on the ark of the Testimony, about everything which I will give you in commandment to the children of Israel.
Num 7:89
Now when Moses went into the tabernacle of meeting to speak with Him, he heard the voice of One speaking to him from above the mercy seat that was on the ark of the Testimony, from between the two cherubim; thus He spoke to him.
1Sa 4:4
So the people sent to Shiloh, that they might bring from there the ark of the covenant of the LORD of hosts, who dwells between the cherubim. And the two sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas, were there with the ark of the covenant of God.
1Ki 8:6
Then the priests brought in the ark of the covenant of the LORD to its place, into the inner sanctuary of the temple, to the Most Holy Place, under the wings of the cherubim.
Is the Ark of the Covenant symbolizing the cherubim guarding the Tree of Life?
2Ki 19:15
Then Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said: “O LORD God of Israel, the One who dwells between the cherubim, You are God, You alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth. You have made heaven and earth.
2Ch 5:8
For the cherubim spread their wings over the place of the ark, and the cherubim overshadowed the ark and its poles.
Eze 10:3
Now the cherubim were standing on the south side of the temple when the man went in, and the cloud filled the inner court.
Eze 41:18
And it was made with cherubims and palm trees, so that a palm tree was between a cherub and a cherub; and every cherub had two faces;
two faces? good and evil?
Eze 41:20
From the ground unto above the door were cherubims and palm trees made, and on the wall of the temple.
If the temple is inside us, is it saying we have good and evil?
If satan was a "covering cherub" in Ezekiel 28:16 of the OT, could lucifer have been a top cherub guarding the Tree of Life? Did both his faces turn evil?
Can the Tree of Life be guarded by hiding it with cherubim?
Are cherubim the reason a fallen condition can not see the Kingdom of God?
Exo 25:22
“And there I will meet with you, and I will speak with you from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim which are on the ark of the Testimony, about everything which I will give you in commandment to the children of Israel.
Num 7:89
Now when Moses went into the tabernacle of meeting to speak with Him, he heard the voice of One speaking to him from above the mercy seat that was on the ark of the Testimony, from between the two cherubim; thus He spoke to him.
1Sa 4:4
So the people sent to Shiloh, that they might bring from there the ark of the covenant of the LORD of hosts, who dwells between the cherubim. And the two sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas, were there with the ark of the covenant of God.
between the two cherubim ..where there isn't an illusion going on?
1Ki 8:6
Then the priests brought in the ark of the covenant of the LORD to its place, into the inner sanctuary of the temple, to the Most Holy Place, under the wings of the cherubim.
Yes
After they ate they " knew" sin.
Like you say "lost innocence".
The fruit of sin ( or an "earned pay") brings death.
Both trees are now figurative.
When i " eat" from either i am operating in one or the other.
Life vs death
The angels are the veil. Separating man from God.
Mans dillema. Holy God/ sinful man.
Jesus is the only way back to God.
Innocent blood became the cleanser to break the power of sin or to be a avenue to be back into Gods family.
No blood....No redemption.
We see innocent blood envoked immediately with the loin cloths for adam and eve.
the garden represents fellowship and companionship with God.
A horrible thing to be banned from God. Disfellowshipped. Kicked out. With the accompanying darkness, anguish, and despair.
At the rapture, some will be left behind. Forced to take the mark or be martyred.....and will be overtaken by sorrow and despair.
....but be gloriously martyred and recieve the martyrs crown.
Did they become figurative to Adam and Eve after sinning? Did they have memory of the Garden?
.....and the Lord Jesus requires death to the flesh.
No death and the baggage follows us around seeking a " cure".
We can nail our feet and one hand to the cross. Jesus will nail the other hand if we do the feet and one hand.
Not a pretty sight. But Gods "business" is turning ashes into beauty.
Steve hill used to say
" religion is hanging around the cross, christianity is getting on the cross"
Satan had the "lock"
Jesus has the keys.
When he tempted Jesus he said " i have the power to give the kingdoms of the earth to whom i will"
He is a liar.
Anything he " gives" is an illusion