Does the Last Day include the whole millennium?

[john832]

Yes, the seven feasts are definitely rich with prophetic meaning. But I would say that for the Day of Atonement, both goats represent Christ. He died and He also took our sins far away. I don't think Satan is the scapegoat.

As for the feast of Tabernacles, yes, it seems to represent the Millennium, as we see this celebrated in Zechariah 14:16.

But Paul also said this:

Colossians 2:16 (ESV) Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

OK. if both goats represent Christ, explain how he was led away into the wilderness by the hand of a fit man...

Lev 16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
Lev 16:21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
Lev 16:22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.

This goat represents Satan who bears the responsibility for introducing sin in the garden and deceiving mankind leading them in to sin and death.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Jesus Christ DIED for our sins to pay the penalty of death for sin.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Azazel goat (scapegoat) was turned out into the wilderness alive. The scriptures plainly show that Christ died for our sins. Yes, the Azazel is the pictures the Devil being cast into the bottomless pit.

 

[ewq1938]

In what version of amillennialism would that be?

All forms. After the second coming comes the second death. Death still exists post-second coming in all end times theologies.

 

[greenonions]

You have to consider the audience and the age. The last day for the age of Adam was the flood.

The last day for the Jews and the law was somewhere around 70 AD.

OK, so you are saying that Jesus was talking about two different last days in John 6:40 and John 12:48?

The Jews are still alive and the Law of Moses is still in force for the Jews. When Babylon captured Jerusalem in 587 BC, that didn't end the Jews or the Law, and neither did AD 70. The Law only ends when we die to the Law with Christ (Romans 7:4, 6)

 

[ewq1938]

There are a lot of last days.

There is the last day of the church age. The last day of the great tribulation. The last day before the thousand year age begins. The last day of the thousand year age. The last day of Satan's little season. The last day before the eternity begins.

 

[PaulThomson]

There are a lot of last days.

There is the last day of the church age. The last day of the great tribulation. The last day before the thousand year age begins. The last day of the thousand year age. The last day of Satan's little season. The last day before the eternity begins.

Can you pleae give references for these expressions in the Bible?

 

[tttallison]

Can you pleae give references for these expressions in the Bible?

I wouldn't see a need for a reference of every expression, "the last day". What does the last day mean? If you are referencing the whole Bible, then the last day would have to be after the millennium, or chapter 22, would it not? There are many ages portrayed in the Bible.

 

[PaulThomson]

I wouldn't see a need for a reference of every expression, "the last day". What does the last day mean? If you are referencing the whole Bible, then the last day would have to be after the millennium, or chapter 22, would it not? There are many ages portrayed in the Bible.

IMHO, the last 1000 years of God's 7000 year long week, as others have suggested in this thread I would see a need for a reference for every expression, if I were to take your post seriously as a biblical notion.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Thanks for your detailed reply. I'm guessing that you mean that Revelation 21:1 is chronologically after the Great White Throne judgment in Revelation 20:11-15. My understanding is that just as Revelation has multiple visions that are not all chronological, this is another chronological break. For example, I think angel that showed John the New Jerusalem in Rev. 21:9 likely poured out his bowl not too long ago.


The first resurrection in Rev. 20:4 includes people who were "beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands" (Rev. 20:4 NKJV). I don't think the OT saints were beheaded for their witness to Jesus. I don't think the beast and his image were worshiped before Jesus' death and resurrection. Many saints arose, but was it 1) all the OT saints? 2) did they resurrect like Lazarus and die later? Daniel Chapter 12 seems to put the time of resurrection loosely around the "time of trouble" (Dan. 12:1-2). Daniel himself would rest and arise to his inheritance at the end of the days (Dan. 12:13). I think the inheritance is the future kingdom of God. For these reasons, I don't think the events at Jesus' resurrection are the first resurrection in Rev. 20:4.

Yes I agree it’s several visions, I see chronology but not in a single timeline only when you begin to layer revelation with the rest of the Bible for instance several things bring me to think what I was saying for instance it says the first earth has passed away just before the new Jerusalem comes down from heaven

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then I think of what Peter said about the end of the heaven and earth but also promises a new earth just as revelation shows

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

( we know the lake of fire John sees is where the ungodly end up )

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

…..Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Then you think back to what he said through the prophets that he was going to end this world in fire because of mankind’s teansgressions and defilement

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left. …..The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then you think of how God promised to create a new heaven and earth even then

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What you begin to realize is often Gods speaking of the world to come that he promised like this place

“For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭66:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

eventually we see he’s making everything new even the people through Christ

The timeline is not coming from revelation because as you said it’s several visions that layer and are interwoven but with the other parts of the Bible that lead up to revelation there in is somewhat of an order of events not a timeline but an order of things like the new Jerusalem coming down after the first heaven and earth end in a blaze of fire


“I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven,”

to me it says that Jerusalem never comes to this current earth but comes to a new earth after this one is burned up as Peter explained in 2 Peter 3 or even as Paul touches on here

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction ( in the lake of fire this creation when it’s burned up ) from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m unorganized but I’m sure you see at least why I’m there in that frame of thinking . Doesn’t mean I’m right but I am convinced

 

[GaryA]

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

…..Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction ( in the lake of fire this creation when it’s burned up ) from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There will be "destruction and rearrangement" at the Second Coming of Christ; however, the earth will not be totally destroyed at that time - that will be later - circa GWTJ.

The 'day' of the Lord is both 1000 years and the first [24-hour] day of that 1000 years. The context of scripture determines which it is.

The span of time that includes all of the occurrences of 2 Peter 3:10 is 1000 years (We know this because of verse 8.) - it does not happen all at once when Christ returns.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

There will be "destruction and rearrangement" at the Second Coming of Christ; however, the earth will not be totally destroyed at that time - that will be later - circa GWTJ.

The 'day' of the Lord is both 1000 years and the first [24-hour] day of that 1000 years. The context of scripture determines which it is.

The span of time that includes all of the occurrences of 2 Peter 3:10 is 1000 years (We know this because of verse 8.) - it does not happen all at once when Christ returns.

Im not really sure what you’re saying here

“There will be "destruction and rearrangement"

Peter is talking about when Jesus returns

“knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

……The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;

in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:3-4, 9-

Paul also talking about the return of jesus from heaven with destroying fire that’s punishment for the ungodly just like Peter is talking about

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints,

and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭

the “ thousand years “ isn’t literal it’s like when it says “ they receive power as kings with the beast for one hour “

“And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:12‬ ‭

This also is a reference to a very short abbreviated period of time but it an hour literally and wouldn’t be used as a timeline ect

“And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭8:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So many people try to figure out how a literal thousand year riegn on this earth looks like and there could be the answer maybe that’s it but my own belief is that the riegn of Christ and his saintsof the first resurrection is In Heaven already and began after Jerusalems destruction and desolation . And the thousand years simply represents a very long period of time ( just as Peter is describing ) u til Christs second coming and that day eventually this world full of wickedness will be destroyed and tbat reign of Jesus and his kingdom in heaven comes to a new earth. ( whether it’s literally new or burned up and cleansed like in the flood )

 

[GaryA]

I disagree. I believe the one hour is literal. I believe the half hour is literal. However, two totally different contexts.

Of course, if 'one hour' is not literal - then, it represents a very short period of time. I can agree with that.

 

[ewq1938]

Can you pleae give references for these expressions in the Bible?

Sure. The whole bible.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I disagree. I believe the one hour is literal. I believe the half hour is literal. However, two totally different contexts.

Of course, if 'one hour' is not literal - then, it represents a very short period of time. I can agree with that.

yeah that’s my position on it. but it’s only my opinion. I’m just an old guy online with nothing better to do than to discuss in my free time so lol

I appreciate the good spirit for discussing some more reasons o believe that Jesus is already and has long been reigning in his kingdom in heaven

“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. and they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

….These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:1, 3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order:

Christ , the firstfruits; ( first resurrection )

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.”( last resurrection )
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬



“And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of Lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:12-14KJV‬‬

This I believe is happening in heaven

“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and this on earth

“And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Sort of this dynamic is throughout the book

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. ( they’ve lived on earth and been redeemed by Jesus now are in heavens kingdom )

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth ( but the earth is not in the same state it’s at war with Satan ) and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just an opinion however not claiming to be absolute or anything juet what I see

 

[greenonions]

This I believe is happening in heaven

“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and this on earth

“And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Notice that the heavenly scene and the earthly scene that you propose above cannot be at the same time. Rev. 20:4-6 describes the thousand years. Rev. 20:7-9 is after the thousand years.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Notice that the heavenly scene and the earthly scene that you propose above cannot be at the same time. Rev. 20:4-6 describes the thousand years. Rev. 20:7-9 is after the thousand years.

I really dont see how that means they aren’t happening at the same time no.

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. ( definately Jesus )

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

( Satan has been cast out of heaven and all those people are celebrating being saved by the blood of Christ in heaven with him in his kingdom where he’s reigning in the throne )

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time……And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5, 9-12, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to me it’s definately happening at the same time the visions goe back and forth showing things on heaven and earth.

mostly though you must not inderrrsnd my position regarding the thousand years riegn and first resurrection ect

It’s that the thousand years aren’t literal but it represents a very extended period of time . And tbat the riegn hapoens in heaven and has been happening for a very long time . And that the first resurrection was the one promised in the ot to the saints of the ot who had died long beforehand.

again not just everyone but the saints the 144000 who were sealed in a different vision on revelation who appear on Mount sion the heavenly Jerusalem with him ect

 

[greenonions]

I really dont see how that means they aren’t happening at the same time no.

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. ( definately Jesus )

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

( Satan has been cast out of heaven and all those people are celebrating being saved by the blood of Christ in heaven with him in his kingdom where he’s reigning in the throne )

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time……And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5, 9-12, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to me it’s definately happening at the same time the visions goe back and forth showing things on heaven and earth.

mostly though you must not inderrrsnd my position regarding the thousand years riegn and first resurrection ect

It’s that the thousand years aren’t literal but it represents a very extended period of time . And tbat the riegn hapoens in heaven and has been happening for a very long time . And that the first resurrection was the one promised in the ot to the saints of the ot who had died long beforehand.

again not just everyone but the saints the 144000 who were sealed in a different vision on revelation who appear on Mount sion the heavenly Jerusalem with him ect

I meant that something during the thousand years is different from AFTER the thousand years.

Let's talk about the casting out of Satan to the earth in Revelation 12:12. Yes, I agree that the male Child is Jesus. When do you think Satan is cast down to the earth? It can't be immediately after Jesus' ascension because there weren't any Christians who died for their faith yet and Ephesians 6:12 says the spiritual hosts of wickedness are still in the heavenly places. I think it is 7 years before Jesus' Second Coming. As a result, Satan has not yet been bound in the bottomless pit (Rev. 20:2), so the thousand year clock did not start yet.

Yes, there are people celebrating in heaven. Even the 24 elders are celebrating in Rev. 5, when the Lamb is worshipped on the throne. So are they reigning with Christ? I think the elders sitting on thrones does suggest they are reigning, though there is also a future reign on earth (Rev. 5:10; 11:15). There are many references in Psalms that tell us that the LORD reigns (e.g. Psalm 93:1), and we know that Jesus is included in the LORD.

As for the first resurrection for OT saints when Jesus died, consider also the example of David. Acts 2:29 suggests that David was dead and buried, and still in his tomb on Pentecost.

 

[GaryA]

Im not really sure what you’re saying here

“There will be "destruction and rearrangement"

Peter is talking about when Jesus returns

Jesus is going to do a lot of "destruction and rearrangement" when He comes...