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I'm ready to move on to the next one. 
Because after we get through them and have no need to go over them again and again, (which is insisting on drinking milk for the rest of your life - and sometimes insisting that no one else drink or eat anything else either!) then we can move on to perfection as Paul says!
Because after we get through them and have no need to go over them again and again, (which is insisting on drinking milk for the rest of your life - and sometimes insisting that no one else drink or eat anything else either!) then we can move on to perfection as Paul says!
i am not asking for an opinion, i am asking you, who claim to see, to show from the scriptures, and to prove your stand or belief.
mixing grace and law, is not a stand.
grace cancels condemnation or protects you from condemnation.
that is why gal 5 was quoted.
so teaching against gal5 would say ,returning to law, and ask the question , who gave this law to you in the first place. etc
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Ariel82
Guest
PeterJens, no offense meant, but I found your analogy more confusing than enlightening.
I don't really know if we need to discuss the NEED for spiritual maturity. Perhaps we can discuss it on another thread. This one we are just trying to figure out how to make simple milk bottles.
I don't really know if we need to discuss the NEED for spiritual maturity. Perhaps we can discuss it on another thread. This one we are just trying to figure out how to make simple milk bottles.
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Ariel82
Guest
I'm ready to move on to the next one.
Because after we get through them and have no need to go over them again and again, (which is insisting on drinking milk for the rest of your life - and sometimes insisting that no one else drink or eat anything else either!) then we can move on to perfection as Paul says!
True let's refocus and summarize them.
Bottle 1: you are a sinner in need of a savior (repent)
Bottle 2: God sent Jesus Christ to die for your sins upon the Cross. he rose again on the third day and ascended into heaven. He will send His Holy Spirit to be teacher, intercessor, mediator and guide. (faith towards God)
Bottle 3: baptism is when the Holy Spirit descends on your life and washed you clean of your sins. It is when God declares you His adopted child.
Should we move on to the laying of hands then?
unworthy to read rom 5
did you miss the date ,this was wrote on.
unworthy is a thing of the past in christian teaching.
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned---13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Romans 5
if your still looking at sin or unworthyness, who do you blame for that.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
This is sad. this is an important topic. To many churches are trying to force feed meat into baby christians, then wonder why they get fed up and leave, because they are so confused. ANy discipleship training of any new found believer needs to focus on milk, it is is good to try to find out what true Milk is. Thank you Ariel for this thread.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Me Myself and I.
I am the one who did the sinning.
How else did people repent before there was a law given? by what Law? The law written on their heart, the law engrained in the creative act.
If you want to focus on law. I think there are about 1000 threads for that..
yet this is someone else problem, they can not answer, there own stand or confirm on here.
with scripture,
you need to forgive to be forgiven. is also a fruit that is missing in there stand.
The Holy Spirits ministry surely is not washing us clean of sins, but our consciences from the effects
of sin, healing hurts and damage done by sin. Christ and the cross is where our sins are forgiven and
dealt with.
Scripture implies the word washes us clean.
having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience
Heb 10:22
He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit
Titus 3:5
Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
Eph 5:25-27
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Ariel82
Guest
Scriptures about laying of hands
1 Timothy 4:14
Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery.
2 Timothy 1:6
For this reason I remind you to kindle afresh the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands
Acts 8:17
Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.
Mark 10:16
And He took them in His arms and began blessing them, laying His hands on them.
Luke 4:40
While the sun was setting, all those who had any who were sick with various diseases brought them to Him; and laying His hands on each one of them, He was healing them.
Acts 13:3
Then, when they had fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.
Mark 16:18
they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
1 Timothy 4:14
Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery.
2 Timothy 1:6
For this reason I remind you to kindle afresh the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands
Acts 8:17
Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.
Mark 10:16
And He took them in His arms and began blessing them, laying His hands on them.
Luke 4:40
While the sun was setting, all those who had any who were sick with various diseases brought them to Him; and laying His hands on each one of them, He was healing them.
Acts 13:3
Then, when they had fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.
Mark 16:18
they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
you would need an introduction to god. you did not get that from an old testament.
now what law is on our hearts, if its the same as the jewish, then there would not be an acts 15 in the bible.
and if your still reject romans 5. then the jewish law asks for a animal for forgiveness.
make up your mind , what law, makes you a sinner. that you, need to repent for a saviour grace.
Good scriptures. They seem to indicate to me that there is some kind of a transfer of power/blessing/goodness or a release of what is already in them in some cases.
There is something about touching people with our hands that brings life. Jesus blessed the children by laying His hands on them too.
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Ariel82
Guest
Jesus is the Word.
I see the distinction that you are trying to make. The Holy Spirit cleanses our minds. However, even before we "feel" clean of our sins, we are clean because of what Jesus did upon the cross.
Truthfully though, I doubt babies can tell the difference.
thats my last post to you.
5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith---6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?
The Righteous Shall Live by Faith
10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them."11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith."12 But the law is not of faith, rather "The one who does them shall live by them."13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us---for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"---14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
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Ariel82
Guest
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Ariel82
Guest
It reminds me that we are not lone rangers but part of the Body of Christ. I believe the laying of hands is done as a blessing from the church. It is when our spiritual gifts are made manifest and we learn and grow to minister to others.
Concerning peters last post and your response to him, a verse came to me.
If a man has washed and is clean, he only has need that his feet be washed again later if he gets them dirty.
So He washes us but we step in puddles and get our feet muddy...
If a man has washed and is clean, he only has need that his feet be washed again later if he gets them dirty.
So He washes us but we step in puddles and get our feet muddy...