exactly. proper teaching is so important for babes in Christ. a lot of the dis-agreements we have is because of folks doing what you just said- taking a certain translation and just going with it, with no research on the original texts.
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I have noticed where the word "and" was used in the NT as not a completely different thing. For instance, the Father is looking for men like this, who will worship Him in spirit and truth. So it doesn't mean the Spirit is one thing and the truth is a completely different thing, as in if I were to say: the bowl has apples and oranges in it. But the way they seemed to use and was more as if I were to say, the bowl has oranges and juice in it. Have you noticed this? There are quite a few verses that translate this way.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
winnowing fan.
A fan used to separate wheat and chaff.
before it is used, the mixture is threashed on the floor.. then he mixture is put through the fan, which seperates the grain from the chaff.
The grain is then put in the barn, The chaff is then taken out to the fire, cast into the fire,
The threshing comes before the fan, the refining process would be the threshing, (it is what breaks apart the chaff from the wheat) not the fan..
A fan used to separate wheat and chaff.
before it is used, the mixture is threashed on the floor.. then he mixture is put through the fan, which seperates the grain from the chaff.
The grain is then put in the barn, The chaff is then taken out to the fire, cast into the fire,
The threshing comes before the fan, the refining process would be the threshing, (it is what breaks apart the chaff from the wheat) not the fan..
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
ie, it MAY be this way or it MAY not be.
so we are left with context. we have to be careful to think that just because it MAY be translated that way does not mean it always IS translated that way.
I think it depends on how you are looking at the verse. Are you looking at it and applying it to everyone else BUT you or are you looking at it for your own inside...
Judgement begins with the church first and He is removing our chaff here and now because He has judged we have it and wants to winnow/burn/remove slag now. We aren't perfected here but we are BEING perfected here and now.
Judgement begins with the church first and He is removing our chaff here and now because He has judged we have it and wants to winnow/burn/remove slag now. We aren't perfected here but we are BEING perfected here and now.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I think Jesus said somewhere (help?) how a farmer lets the wheat and chaff grow together until the harvest time, because if he took out all the chaff, some of the wheat would be destroyed with it..
He spoke of letting Gods children (wheat) live together and grow with the chaff (the unsaved) until the time of harvest, Where God will separate the wheat from the chaff.
at harvest time, the wheat is threshed, it is then separated from the chaff, and the chaff is burned in the fire.
To me this is the view, or symbol, john is using to explain what he means.
He spoke of letting Gods children (wheat) live together and grow with the chaff (the unsaved) until the time of harvest, Where God will separate the wheat from the chaff.
at harvest time, the wheat is threshed, it is then separated from the chaff, and the chaff is burned in the fire.
To me this is the view, or symbol, john is using to explain what he means.
An interesting view. But, is baptism for judgment? Or even for "refining?"
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I think he is talking about salvation. How does God separate the wheat from the chaff.. (what will jesus do when he comes to the world?)
I don't see it quite that way. I see the word as literal or spiritual. Or as the letter or the spirit of the words.
To not murder does mean to not bludgeon anyone to death with a bat.
To not murder also does mean to be angry with your brother.
One is the letter. The other is the spirit.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
to add,
John told the pharisees to show proof they had truly repented (become children of God) before he would baptize them.
He was not talking to them about being refined or purified as time goes on, as Gods children, but about being saved period (repent) so to me this is the context of what he is speaking about.
He works in us also, right now, to remove the wheat from the chaff in each of us.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
ie, the context is justification, or salvation, Not sanctification.
to purify a believer, or to burn of the chaff to make them a more pure person would be sanctification.
sorry, these things come to mind after I already posted my previous thought..lol
to purify a believer, or to burn of the chaff to make them a more pure person would be sanctification.
sorry, these things come to mind after I already posted my previous thought..lol
And if one obeys in spirit, they won't break the letter either. Or to put it another way, if the inside is clean, the outside just will be too.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
He works in us also, right now, to remove the wheat from the chaff in each of us.
Yes he does, and he will till the day we die.
By one offering he has perfected forever those being sanctified ..
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
yes the law of love,
He must birn away our self righteousness, before he can teach us to love others, as he loved us, And that is what sanctification is all about.
Yes! Self righteousness, self will, pride that gets it's feelings hurt and then murders, presumptuousness, arrogance.
These are the things He burns out, because judgement begins with the house of God and He wants us to stand before Him, unshaken, without loss in later fire.
These are the things He burns out, because judgement begins with the house of God and He wants us to stand before Him, unshaken, without loss in later fire.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yes! Self righteousness, self will, pride that gets it's feelings hurt and then murders, presumptuousness, arrogance.
These are the things He burns out, because judgement begins with the house of God and He wants us to stand before Him, unshaken, without loss in later fire.
YES!
but this is, from what I have studied, is not what he is talking about in Matt 3
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I think both happen.. and we must undertand the difference between the two..
The one would be the milk. the other would be more of a steak dinner.. (something a baby probably could not understand quite yet)
Well...we are baptized with the Holy Spirit and then that Spirit begins His work in us. The fire part is His working. And it's painful at first, but He has to empty us to fill us with more light...that's kind of how I see it.
