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MsLimpet
Guest
You said you agree with James, then you want me to agree with Paul, please be more clearer in what you want me to "agree" with, including scripture.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
1. It is you who are skimming.
2. There is no baptism in john chapter 3. it is not mentioned 1 time.
3. John 3:16 is jesus answer to "how am I born again"
Why do you want to add the word baptism to believe, When jesus made it clear. ONLY FAITH in him is required for eternal life.
Those who have TRUE FAITH will work. but they are not saved by their works, Paul makes this clear.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Paul said faith not works. But those who have faith WILL WORK. (eph 2: 10)
James said no work, no faith
so how can one be saved if they do not have faith?
You evidently do not agree with this as you use james to deny eternal security, When james is saying that you were never saved to begin with, which does not deny eternal security, It Denys that there ever was a salvation. HUGE difference.
Why not just admit a free gift given under a condition, is still a free gift.
It has been explained to you several times something like this, (I will give you a free car, all you have to do is go to my office, open the top right drawer, take the keys and it is yours) now because you had to go get the keys to the car I gave you, does it mean you earned it? you can't see how ridiculous that is?
Salvation is a gift for all men :
1 Timothy 2:3-4 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
how do you do that?
Condition 1 (Hear the Gospel Romans 10:17)
Condition 2 (Believe it Romans 1:16) notice the righteous work of "hearing" that had to be done before one can get here, He will not do this for you...
Condition 3 (Repent Acts 3:19)
Condition 4 (Confess Faith in Christ Acts 8:37)
Condition 5 (Be Baptized Acts 8:37)
Condition 6 (Be Faithful Unto Death Rev 2:10)
How can one have faith in something if they have not done the righteous work of hearing?:
Romans 10:17 (NKJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Because it is not true.
A gift which has conditions placed on it is not a gift, it is a reward, it is a wage, it is a prize it is earned.
If I give you a gift ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS TAKE IT AND IT IS YOURS>>
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
how is this a work? Did you teach yourself? Did you write the bible yourself? Did you listen to yourself?
For it to be a work., you must be able to take credit for it. Can I take credit for hearing something I did not right and placing my faith in it?? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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MsLimpet
Guest
John 3:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
When Jesus said in John 3:3, “Unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God,” Jesus must have been crazy because no one can re-enter his mother’s womb and be born again. When Jesus made statements as He did in Mark 3:34-35 when His mother and brothers were calling to Him, and He turned around and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers, for whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother,” He was “a little bit off,” and a lunatic.
He began with the familiar "verily, verily," literally, truly, truly, often noted in John's biography of Jesus, and designed to denote the solemn and serious declaration about to be given. Basic and fundamental to Nicodemus' need was a new birth! "Except one be born anew, he cannot see [enter and enjoy] the kingdom of God." it was important that Nicodemus should be made to realize that he, and all other men, in spite of, and despite his and their fleshly preferences, must be born again, in order to enter God's kingdom.
Nicodemus, along with his fellow Pharisees, believed that his descent from Abraham and his dedication to the traditions of the fathers assured him of divine acceptance into Messiah's kingdom. Jesus knew that this concept had to be rooted up before Nicodemus could be brought to see his condition; and to it he gave priority.since active life begins at birth, it was necessary for Nicodemus to learn that he was as yet not suited for the kingdom of God, not having been born "anew."
Charles Stanly : He said in his book; “Where is this place represented by the ‘outer darkness’ in Jesus’ parables? To be in the ‘outer darkness’ is to be in the kingdom of God but outside the circle of men and women whose faithfulness on this earth earned them a special rank or position of authority. The ‘outer darkness’ represents not so much an actual place as it does a sphere of influence and privilege.”Concerning the “gnashing of teeth” Charles Stanley goes on to say that these people were “extremely frustrated with themselves” and “As some are celebrated for their faithfulness, others will gnash their teeth in frustration…” And ”we do not know how long this time of rejoicing and sorrow will last. Those whose works are burned up will not weep and gnash their teeth for eternity.” [Charles Stanley: Eternal Security, Can You Be Sure? Pages 126-127]
Yet we see :
Revelation 21:4 (NKJV)
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
now how does someone with a doctorate degree, with this verse, justify his false teaching that people in heaven will "gnash their teeth in frustration" ??? A third grader can see through this.
Yet we see :
Revelation 21:4 (NKJV)
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
now how does someone with a doctorate degree, with this verse, justify his false teaching that people in heaven will "gnash their teeth in frustration" ??? A third grader can see through this.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Agree.
however, Nothing in there says a word about baptism.
Jesus answered him how to be born again in
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
How is one born again? How can this be?
Jesus answers him>
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? [SUP]11 [/SUP]Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. [SUP]12 [/SUP]If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? [SUP]13 [/SUP]No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]14 [/SUP]And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, [SUP]15 [/SUP]that whoever believes in Him should not perish but[SUP][b][/SUP] have eternal life. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Every day you go to work, when you go get your keys, then start your car, did you earn your car?
can you know what is truth or not if you do not hear? must you not do first the work of "hear" if it is something you "must do" it is a work, righteous or not, now we have to look at it if it is a work of merit, you contend "all" work is of merit, you could not know the difference if you don't do the righteous work of hearing (via preaching teaching or reading) nobody "put" it in your head but you.
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MsLimpet
Guest
John 3:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
What, is meant by being born of water and the Spirit? To enter the kingdom is to be saved. (Col. 1:13, 14.) To be saved one must believe, repent, confess and be baptized for (unto) the remission of sins. (Heb. 11:6; Luke 13:3; Rom. 10:10; Acts 2:38.)
To enter the kingdom one must be born of water and the Spirit. Since things equal to the same thing are equal to each other, it follows that to be born of water and the Spirit is to believe the gospel, repent of one's sins, confess one's faith in Christ and be baptized for the remission sins.
How can you "believe in Him" and not "do" what He says :
John 14:24 (NKJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
You have not proved that water means baptism.
If baptism was required, then jesus would have said it in vs 10- 18.
Nicodemus would have had no way to think water meant baptism. That would be a false conclusion.
As for the rest.
Col 1 is speaking of the baptism done without hands, The one performed by God
Heb 11: 6 has nothing to do with baptism in water or any other baptism. it has to do with FAITH
Luke 13 has nothing to do with baptism, it says to repent.
And in acts 2, he tells EVERYONE to repent, He only tells SOME to be baptized. And it shows they were baptized AFTER they repented, and were saved.
Also.
Why have you failed to answer how someone can be saved with no faith, as James claims??
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Who said I did? I never claimed I did not do works.
I was baptized in water
I do assemble myself together
I do take the Lords supper in remembrance of him
I do serve my fellow christians in the body of Christ
I do give to my church unselfishly
I do teach the gospel\
I do make disciples of others and baptise them.
If I do not works. then I do not have faith and am not saved, (as james points out)
Your the one claiming I can be saved by faith, and not do works. not me.
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MsLimpet
Guest
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
The same reason Arron and his sons were baptized. So everyone could witness. These people who are washed are set apart by God, And this is their testimony.
John 1: [SUP]31 [/SUP]I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.” [SUP]32 [/SUP]And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. [SUP]33 [/SUP]I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ [SUP]34 [/SUP]And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”
To testify WHO he is.
Why do you deny the baptism of Jesus in the HS?
Why would you want to replace that by men? Even John said he will baptise with the HS. Do you want Gods baptism? Or a washing done by men who need saved themselves? How can a sinner wash you when his sins need washed?