Romans 3:9-19, and surrounding text. Galatians 3:10-14, Ephesians 2:1-10 All state all humans sin, so matter what, and it's only by Christ's divine sacrifice you are saved. What is it to argue, "we will not sin" or "how can we go on sinning", when we are saddled in original sin in every thought, every word, every work? Nothing fixes this, but Grace, not your choice, not your understanding. Truly you must admit you sin, you will continue to sin, not live some illusory sinless life.
Dreams and the end times (I'm about to look supid(er))
- Thread starter JFSurvivor
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Romans 3:9-19, and surrounding text. Galatians 3:10-14, Ephesians 2:1-10 All state all humans sin, so matter what, and it's only by Christ's divine sacrifice you are saved. What is it to argue, "we will not sin" or "how can we go on sinning", when we are saddled in original sin in every thought, every word, every work? Nothing fixes this, but Grace, not your choice, not your understanding. Truly you must admit you sin, you will continue to sin, not live some illusory sinless life.
I suspect the wording there is not quite what you are assuming was said in that passage. I think it said the Spirit would be poured out on all, but the actual manifestations were fairly clearly specified. And, after all, is not accurate reading what many here deem to be of paramount importance?
Just trying to stay with the consensus here. Don't want anyone saying I misstated the words that were written.
K
KennethC
Guest
Romans 3:9-19 is the charge we are all held by under the law, for the law shows none of us are righteous.
Galatians3:10-14 is also about being unrighteous because of the law, but Christ was sent to redeem us of this curse.
Now we live by faith, walking by the Spirit producing fruit thereof.
Ephesians 2:1-10 speaks on the conversion process that the Holy Spirit works in us when we are born again.
We are no longer dead in our tresspasses because we walk by the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will not lead a person to transgress, but instead strengthen us were we are weak.
All people have sinned and will stumble at times, but that in no way excuses or allows sinful behavior to continue.
Again I suggest reading Jude 1:4.......
I think also, buying into "prophecy" being fortune-telling and soothsaying is an impractical view. Prophecy is "speaking God's perfect truth", be it about the past, the present or future. That's what a prophet does, he speaks God's truth. Now, some amazing prophetic words have a wisdom of a sort of circular happenstance. Events that happened in Daniel and Isaiah meant for the era of the Babylonian exile, can be very true again and again.
This is why I don't shut people down for suspecting futuristic views, because it "can happen", but you don't "depend" or "qualify" those, because most prophetic events already happened in the substance of their allegories, and really, if they don't pan out to happen futuristically as you interpret, we have a problem because "you" have just made a prophet "not a prophet", thus will lose faith, because your "rapture" or "millenialism" interpretation never came to fruition quite the way you wanted. This is the crystal ball paradox so many believers have today of the prophets. It's harmful.
This is why I don't shut people down for suspecting futuristic views, because it "can happen", but you don't "depend" or "qualify" those, because most prophetic events already happened in the substance of their allegories, and really, if they don't pan out to happen futuristically as you interpret, we have a problem because "you" have just made a prophet "not a prophet", thus will lose faith, because your "rapture" or "millenialism" interpretation never came to fruition quite the way you wanted. This is the crystal ball paradox so many believers have today of the prophets. It's harmful.
K
KennethC
Guest
I understand where you are coming from but it is not limited to just old men.
Sons and daughters will prophecy
(Prophets are given dreams and visions)
Young men will see visions
(This in no way means or makes on a prophet, but still is done by God)
Your old men will dream dreams
(Again not conclusive to just prophets)
Everything in the bible should be looked at literally, even symbolism that is used points to literal events.
You're telling me an apple isn't an apple. Malus is not malus? Sin is sin. "Not being righteous under the law" is sin. Believing you don't sin is sin. Will you ever tell a lie again, will you tell your grandchildren their burnt cookies are horrible or your wife her behind isn't big? Will you never long after a female stranger, even for an instant? Will you never covet? Of course you will, and all of those things are sin, and more. Worse, you have yourself so programmed you think you know what is or isn't sin, you're sinning right now, and so am I. You don't place qualifications on what is a sin, neither do I, God does!
You cannot escape sin. You are steeped in sin, drenched in it. Only Jesus is without it. You're not Jesus. You sin.
K
KennethC
Guest
Good you shouldn't shut it down, because not all from Daniel and Isaiah is fulfilled.
Instance Daniel 11-12 and Isaiah 21....
Isaiah 21 speaks on the destruction of Babylon. This can not be the original Babylon because areas mentioned being destroyed is in Saudi Arabia along the Red sea.
These areas were not part of the original Babylonian empire !!!
Sadly, you missed the whole point of my post. If people here don't know by now that I do not just automatically take every word in the Bible literally, they have read very few of my posts.
The point of my post was to hold up a mirror to so many people who often hold the feet of others to hot coals about staying dead-center to the written word when it suits them.... yet go blissfully wandering off into "End Times" fairyland with almost any imaginable scenario as it strikes their fancy.
Ahhhhh, and there it is. The "born again". The new perfect sinless man. Tell me, then, if this was possible all along, the way you understand it, from when Jesus said this parable to Nicodemus, why did Jesus have to die???? Why don't we have some sinless clique of elect running around saving themselves by virtue of the decisions they make to say "I'm perfect again, like before Adam! Look, God, your Genesis curse doesn't affect me!"
Rubbish. Synergism robs Jesus of the credit for His perfect sacrifice. Synergism attributes part of that Spirit to... whom... you? You did this with your little decision? Do you even know what you're saying?
K
KennethC
Guest
Speak only for yourself on this behalf, for you can not speak for everyone on this account.
Why do you think one of the reasons is for the Holy Spirit given to us ???
He does not abide in us so we can just continue down the same sinful path.
Paul, James, John, and Hebrews all speaks on disobedience of continuing to live such sinful ways.
How we walk in the faith must match the faith in Jesus, or as John put it the Truth(eternal life) does not abide in us, or James who said a heater but not a doer is deceived !!!
K
KennethC
Guest
Pleases do not read into what I said and say stuff I never did.
Nowhere did I say we are sinless !!!
What I did say though is that we will stumble and will sin at times, but nowhere in the bible does it say or show a continuance of being deliberately sinful is allowed.
Paul, John, James, Peter, Hebrews, and especially not Jesus taught we could remain as we were.
Why do you think Jesus commanded us to walk in love toward everybody, and to show mercy and forgiveness ???
Because as Paul stated love will do no harm to others.
Paul gave two lists; those who will inherit eternal life and those who will not. Notice the list of those who will not, and you will see they are all deliberate sinful conditions.
K
KennethC
Guest
Yes that is an issue with man made doctrines is they only teach and go by parts that suit them and completely ignore other parts
Each ism has this issue !!!
Speaking of the MIRROR that reminds me of what Apostle James said about those who are deceived.
He says those who are deceived are like a man who looks into a mirror and recognizes the vial (sinful) person they are, but when they walk away from the mirror they quickly forget and return to being that vial person again.
Some people have a marked problem with being born again.
They neither believe it, nor believe what Jesus said about it.
S
Siberian_Khatru
Guest
I thought the prevailing fundamental was that you don't have to work for salvation/redemption.
Do you really feel that you must earn it? How? What can you do that is worthy? Is there something in you that is unwilling (or is it "unable?") to totally accept the gift God let His son die for you to have?
K
KennethC
Guest
That right there is the issue, for walking properly in the faith should never be looked at as working to earn salvation.
It should become naturally part of our born again nature done out of love.
The Holy Spirit does not abide in us and do nothing.
K
KennethC
Guest
It is not about earning salvation.
A person's actions will show and prove they are born again, and this is clearly shown from Jesus all throughout the epistles.
Paul, John, and James all 3 show people who express unloving, unforgiving, or unhelpful characteristics are not of God.