Dysfunctional Faith-Alone justification

[passion84god]

A simple answer.

Jesus reconciled us to Himself and we were dead in our sin when He did that.

Jesus atoned for all our unrighteousness through His perfect sacrifice.

This is the reason why we are saved and it's Saved By That Grace through faith...and not of yourselves...(Ephesians 2:8).

The gospel of grace is a free gift it's not something you earn.

Romans 5:15
But the free gift is not like the transgression.

Romans 5:16
But on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The gospel of God's grace towards us, that free gift, is available to anyone that calls on the name of Jesus.

The gospel of grace is not about you and never was about you, your the unworthy recipient of God's grace.

In my mind, this is a perfect example of how cherry-picking verses gets people into trouble. In an attempt to prove your point and to disprove his, you quoted Ephesians 2:8. Why stop there? Why not also quote Ephesians 2:10, where it says, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them"? To your point, yes, we are saved by what Christ accomplished for us through his death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and glorification, with no work of our own added to it, but a genuine belief in it instead. To his point, we were saved from something, sin, and for a purpose, and that purpose is to do the good works that God before ordained that we should walk therein.

The same principle applies to your quotes from Paul's Epistle to the Romans. Why start quoting from chapter 5? Why not start quoting from Romans 2:2-6, where Paul plainly states that God will render to every man according to his deeds or works while admonishing those who were seeking for eternal life to patiently continue doing good works?

Faith without works is as dead as one's body without their spirit.

Of course, someone will ask what good work the thief on the cross did, as if the exception, where a man could not perform any good work after receiving Christ because he died immediately thereafter, somehow becomes the rule.​

 

[Proximus]

Welcome Proximus,

Could i ask you what your understanding of Faith is, specifically the act of faith that saves?

What is it that you understand we do to fulfill the act of faith that saves?

jay

Hello, Jay!

Here is my understanding in its context.

The Lord asks us two things, to believe in Him and to live according to His Commandments. I presented a whole seletion treating of the needs for the christians to live according to the commandments in order to be able to be saved.

Now, when the God Himself, having assumed the Human (which was conceived and born of God Himself), the state fo the church reached its lowest point. Thus, there was the need to come, no longer sending prophets was sufficient. And if He had not come, then everything would have spiritually (and perhaps, later, even naturally) perished. By prevailing over the hells, and glorifying His Human, the Lord accomplished that mission, and in that sense, saved the humankind from the spiritual distruction, which would have spread from the church failing. And He established then His New Church.

That church was expected to look to the Lord by faith and charity. In doing this the old men, or the old will and old understanding were then being put off, and the new man, or the new will and new understanding, or the new love and wisdom from the Lord, were being put on. That is the general process of regeneration, which also has its beginning and its development. Then if a person is changed from the old to a new, and so, then, eventually can be spiritually saved by the Lord, according to His Divine Mercy.

In the Word, when the faith is spoken of, the charity is implied as well. And when charity is spoken about, the faith is also implied, and they have to conjoined as the love and wisdom, or good and the truth.

The faith which saves is to believe/to have confidence that the Lord Jesus Christ is God of heaven and earth, and that He saves. But that faith implies, being alive, the following Him according to the Divine Commandments, thus shunning evils as sins. For the faith which is without charity, does not have anything to do with the salvation, it is the faith of demons, who, according to James, believe and yet "tremble".

When a person only acquires faith, it is not enough, though it is what may called "the first in time". But the first in end, that is the goal in it all, is the charity, thus shunning evils as sins and doing one's uses of one's occupations sincerely, justly and faithfully. If a man is doing this, he is being regenerated by the Lord (to whom all the merit belongs), and so he can ultimately be saved.
The faith is acquired via learning the truths, and charity via living according to them (which includes in the first place, the life according to the commandments).

And both faith and charity look to the Lord for their essence.

That's very briefly.

 

[ATG]

The debate around James 2 ("faith without works is dead") is one of the most discussed in all of Christian theology,

Only because many Christians argue faith alone without works is not dead, but is alive to save.

James never gives a formal definition of works,

James 2:15
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

1 John 3:17
But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

1Jo 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Good works are not good words alone, but doing good.

The first is Works of the Law.

Obedience to the law without faith.

Heb 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

No man is justified with God by works of the law alone apart from faith, nor by faith alone apart from obedience to the law...

"a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ" (Galatians 2:16).

Correct. Not by works of the law without faith in Jesus Christ.

Rom 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Only by doing the law through faith in Jesus Christ

The second is Dead Works,

Works of man's without faith, that are dead to God.

Works of man's righteousness, of law, and of iniquity.

Heb {6:1}
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Repent of dead works without Christ, and only do works of faith toward God:

Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

salvation is by grace through faith, not by works, so that no one can boast.

Salvation is by grace though faith, not by works that man can boast of: dead works without Christ.

The third, and this is what James really means is about works as the living fruit of genuine faith. These are not the cause of salvation but the evidence of it. If you truly believe, it will show up in how you treat people.

Works that prove living faith, proves faith without works is dead,

Hab 2:4
The just shall live by his faith.

Jas 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Paul was writing to legalists who were adding works to faith as a requirement for salvation.

Paul rebukes law doers without faith toward God. James rebukes faith aloners without doing the will of God.

Peter exhorts adding to faith, works of virtue and godliness and charity, to ensure justification with God:

2 pet 1:4
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Paul's concern is works as the root of salvation, you are not saved by works.

Paul rebukes works without faith, that cannot justify the law doer.

James rebukes faith without works, that cannot save the evil doer.

James{2:14}
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

James{2:21}
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?...Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

We are saved by faith alone, but saving faith is never alone.

Example of confusion trying to preach dysfunctional justification by faith alone: Alone is no more alone...

We are saved by faith, that is never alone.

obeying God's commands not as rule-following

Gal 6:15
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Phl 3:16
Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Tit 1:10
For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers,

They are not a checklist to perform for God's approval.

Act 2:22
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Rev{3:4}
Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

There is no list of do's other than good works approved of God, but there certainly is a list of don'ts not approved by God:

Gal 5:19
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness...drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which are doing such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1Ti 1:9
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers...and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

James' argument is really quite simple: a faith that produces no visible change in how you live and love others is not saving faith.

Correct. Unsaving faith is any faith without and apart from works, that is dead, being alone.

Unless alone is no more alone, or without works is no more without works...

 

[ATG]

It is intellectual agreement, nothing more.

This is absolutely true:

Jas 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

James{1:22}
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Faith alone without works is the same as the angels that sin, who believe God is true, but do not His will.

Hearers only do not the word, only hearing justification by faith, not justified by works.

And no one hears the word of God ever saying any man is saved by faith alone, being dead without works.

But men will even say we are saved by faith alone, that is never alone.

1 Cor{14:33}
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

 

[ATG]

We are declared righteous apart from works done in order to earn it as the result, so we can use the word "alone" because that is what it means for one thing to be apart from another thing.

This is a traditional error of faith alone justification.

By faith we are imputed the righteousness of God to do His will. Only by doing His righteousness through faith, is the believer declared to be righteous:

1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John{2:29} I
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that is doing righteousness is born of him.

Being saved by faith is having imputed righteousness. Being justified is doing righteousness by faith.

Righteousness imputed without being done, is dead faith alone without works.

 

[ATG]

If your bearing the fruit of the Holy Spirit then you will not be stealing rather you will be a kind person.

The law says don't do that or you will die, stop stealing.

But the fruit of the Spirit exerts the opposite inclination in being generous to others.

True. But only without stealing at any time.

Eph 4:28
Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

But, thieves can be generous at times, and thieves at times.

So it is with Christians seeking justification by faith alone apart from their works: Good at times, and evil at times.

Rev 3:15
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

The justified Christian is doing good without transgressing the law at any time.

See how the gentleness of the Holy Spirit is an internal regeneration not an external obedience to the law.

Salvation is not an external obedience to the law without the Holy Spirit living within.

Neither is there any internal regeneration of the Spirit with disobedience to the law.

Works of the law without faith in Christ is dead works. Faith in Christ without obeying the law is dead faith.

Faith alone justification apart from our works, is the delusion of inner justification without the law, with outer disobedience to the law.

1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Mat 12:33
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

Many cannot see this subtle difference between the weakness of the law and the work of the Holy Spirit.

But anyone can see the blatant hypocrisy of having the Spirit of the law, while breaking the law of the Spirit.

 

[Watchman22]

Hello, Jay!

Here is my understanding in its context.

The Lord asks us two things, to believe in Him and to live according to His Commandments. I presented a whole seletion treating of the needs for the christians to live according to the commandments in order to be able to be saved.

Now, when the God Himself, having assumed the Human (which was conceived and born of God Himself), the state fo the church reached its lowest point. Thus, there was the need to come, no longer sending prophets was sufficient. And if He had not come, then everything would have spiritually (and perhaps, later, even naturally) perished. By prevailing over the hells, and glorifying His Human, the Lord accomplished that mission, and in that sense, saved the humankind from the spiritual distruction, which would have spread from the church failing. And He established then His New Church.

That church was expected to look to the Lord by faith and charity. In doing this the old men, or the old will and old understanding were then being put off, and the new man, or the new will and new understanding, or the new love and wisdom from the Lord, were being put on. That is the general process of regeneration, which also has its beginning and its development. Then if a person is changed from the old to a new, and so, then, eventually can be spiritually saved by the Lord, according to His Divine Mercy.

In the Word, when the faith is spoken of, the charity is implied as well. And when charity is spoken about, the faith is also implied, and they have to conjoined as the love and wisdom, or good and the truth.

The faith which saves is to believe/to have confidence that the Lord Jesus Christ is God of heaven and earth, and that He saves. But that faith implies, being alive, the following Him according to the Divine Commandments, thus shunning evils as sins. For the faith which is without charity, does not have anything to do with the salvation, it is the faith of demons, who, according to James, believe and yet "tremble".

When a person only acquires faith, it is not enough, though it is what may called "the first in time". But the first in end, that is the goal in it all, is the charity, thus shunning evils as sins and doing one's uses of one's occupations sincerely, justly and faithfully. If a man is doing this, he is being regenerated by the Lord (to whom all the merit belongs), and so he can ultimately be saved.
The faith is acquired via learning the truths, and charity via living according to them (which includes in the first place, the life according to the commandments).

And both faith and charity look to the Lord for their essence.

That's very briefly.

I kind of thought that "believing in Him" would be your response.

Are you aware that the English words " believe, believer, and believing " are mistranslations of the Greek word "pisteuo"?

If your interested, I could give you some information about it?

Jay

 

[Inquisitor]

In my mind, this is a perfect example of how cherry-picking verses gets people into trouble. In an attempt to prove your point and to disprove his, you quoted Ephesians 2:8. Why stop there?

You may not understand that I am battling against not just legalism but also work's righteousness.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created
in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
​

 

[Inquisitor]

without transgressing the law at any time

So you are a legalist.

You finally admitted to Jesus plus the law for salvation.

You do not believe that you are saved by grace through that faith in Jesus, not at all.

I thought you were Jesus plus works righteousness but you are a legalist.

 

[ATG]

You are deeply confused.

Deeply confused is faith alone justifying transgressors doing evil.

2Th 2:10
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Gal 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting…For there is no respect of persons with God.

Christians believing they are justified by their faith alone and doing the same evil as others, can deceive themselves, but not God nor others...

Works follow on from the free gift of salvation and the gospel does not contain works.

Your gospel only by your own faith alone.

Jesus Christ's salvation is not a free gift, but cost Him His own life on a cross, and costs us our lives of sin.

Mar 8:34
And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

Jesus' gospel begins and ends with works of repentance and righteousness:

Acts{3:19}
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Mat 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Tit 3:14
And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

1 Peter {1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

We are a new creation in Jesus Christ full stop.

Not those that don't stop sinning and trespassing against God

But them in Christ Jesus do a full stop transgressing His law:

Ezek 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,

Man's casual repentance at his own will by faith alone, is not God's repentance with a whole heart, nor holy sanctification by His Spirit.

The gospel is solely about the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-5).

The gospel of Jesus Christ is all about repenting of sins for Him that died for sins and rose again to justify them that repent:

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Mat 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sinning.

Heb 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,... seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

You are welding works in with that reconciliation that Jesus performed.

You are divorcing works from reconciliation with God.

1Jo 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

2Co 4:2
But we have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

Only the blind Christ is reconciled to his people continuing to sin and trespass in darkness.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

You must separate your works from the works of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ separates us from our past works of darkness full stop, when we repent and are saved from sinning against Him.

We boast in Jesus Christ and never mention ourselves or our works.

You've talked about yourself plenty. It's your works you don't want to mention, nor to be mentioned by God.

Eccl 12:14
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Sinful man's good news of being justified by their faith alone apart from their works, ends in the grave...

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

 

[Inquisitor]

Faith in Christ without obeying the law is dead faith.

Where in the scripture do any of the apostles teach that?

Where in the N.T does it say that a Gentile Christian must obey the law?

Where in the N.T does it say that Christians must be circumcised and living in Israel, to obey the law?
Because a Gentile must be living in Israel and must be circumcised to obey the law, that's what we
are told a number of times in the O.T.

The law was a temporary until the Christ arrived and that includes the ten words, the law!
Galatians 3:19
Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through
angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.

This verse does not say that the ceremonial law was temporary until the seed (Jesus) would come.

 

[Inquisitor]

Deeply confused is faith alone justifying transgressors doing evil.

2Th 2:10
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Gal 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting…For there is no respect of persons with God.

Christians believing they are justified by their faith alone and doing the same evil as others, can deceive themselves, but not God nor others...

Your gospel only by your own faith alone.

Jesus Christ's salvation is not a free gift, but cost Him His own life on a cross, and costs us our lives of sin.

Mar 8:34
And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

Jesus' gospel begins and ends with works of repentance and righteousness:

Acts{3:19}
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Mat 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Tit 3:14
And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

1 Peter {1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Not those that don't stop sinning and trespassing against God

But them in Christ Jesus do a full stop transgressing His law:

Ezek 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,

Man's casual repentance at his own will by faith alone, is not God's repentance with a whole heart, nor holy sanctification by His Spirit.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is all about repenting of sins for Him that died for sins and rose again to justify them that repent:

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Mat 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sinning.

Heb 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,... seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.



You are divorcing works from reconciliation with God.

1Jo 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

2Co 4:2
But we have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

Only the blind Christ is reconciled to his people continuing to sin and trespass in darkness.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.


Jesus Christ separates us from our past works of darkness full stop, when we repent and are saved from sinning against Him.


You've talked about yourself plenty. It's your works you don't want to mention, nor to be mentioned by God.

Eccl 12:14
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Sinful man's good news of being justified by their faith alone apart from their works, ends in the grave...

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

A huge post based on a misunderstanding of the gospel of grace!

 

[ATG]

Your concerning yourself with works too much.

Tell that to the Scriptures that call for repentance from dead works, and command keeping God's commandments with good works to be justified with Him.

Jas 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Jas 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Heb 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Eccl 12:14
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

2Ti 4:18
And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same work, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?...For there is no respect of persons with God.

1 Peter {1:15}
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judges according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

2Co 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the works done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Rev 9:20
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Rev{20:12}
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works….And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

And yet for all this, you much concern yourself with faith alone. And how many Scriptures preach on faith alone? Only one:

James{2:17}
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Which remains dysfunctional without works...

 

[ATG]

A failure to bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit and your in serious trouble.

A failure to stop bearing evil fruit is serious trouble to the Spirit and Jesus Christ the righteous.

2Pe 2:9
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

A Christian life without love is a pointless existence.

A Christian life with transgressions is a life of loving words.

1Jo 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth

Rev 3:15
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Widen your focus to include all three.

You focus widely on love with transgressions, and I'll keep love without transgressions.

Mat 7:13
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Heb 1:18
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

 

[Inquisitor]

Why start quoting from chapter 5? Why not start quoting from Romans 2:2-6, where Paul plainly states that God will render to every man according to his deeds

You were doing well up to this point then you quoted the verse above (Romans 2:2-6).

Oblivious to the context of Romans 2 which is Paul's assault on the Jewish legalism.

I would strongly advise you to adhere to the context of Romans 2.

Romans 2:9-10
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law,
are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts.

Context, context, context, not cherry picking verses.

Romans 2:17
But if you bear the name “Jew” and rely upon the Law and boast in God.

Romans 2:24
For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you, just as it is written.

Context comes first.

Romans 2:25
For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law.

Paul is not suggesting that Gentiles be circumcised.

Romans 2:28
For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly.

This is Paul talking to the Jews in Rome in the first person.

You must read the N.T in the embedded context.

Gentiles do not have the law and Gentiles are not under the law the ten commandments (Exodus 20).

A commandment may be mentioned here and there in the N.T but that does not mean, that Gentiles are under the law!

 

[ATG]

The Apostle Paul confirms this in 1 Corinthians 6:11, stating: "But you were washed, you were sanctified, you
were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." [1, 2]
Here is how the two concepts work together:

3 work together: Whole washing, sanctification, and justification altogether complete.

When when unwashed, unsanctified, and unjustified works are repented of for Jesus' sake.

Ultimately, both are provided entirely through the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, received by grace, and applied by the Holy Spirit.

Heb 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,... seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

See ATG, no hands.

Act 2:22
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Jas 4:6
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
Psa 24:3
Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place? He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.

It's all in the hands, whether being guilty of shedding Jesus' innocent blood, or justified in cleansing our hands of His innocent blood.

Faith with good works is washed, sanctified, and justified.

Faith alone apart from works is washing one's hands of repentance, and only believing your innocent.

Matth 27:24
When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.

 

[Inquisitor]

Tell that to the Scriptures that call for repentance from dead works, and command keeping God's commandments with good works to be justified with Him.

Jas 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Jas 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Heb 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Eccl 12:14
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

2Ti 4:18
And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same work, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?...For there is no respect of persons with God.

1 Peter {1:15}
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judges according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

2Co 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the works done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Rev 9:20
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Rev{20:12}
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works….And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

And yet for all this, you much concern yourself with faith alone. And how many Scriptures preach on faith alone? Only one:

James{2:17}
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Which remains dysfunctional without works...

You continue in your misunderstanding.

We are justified, sanctified, and are blameless, perfected, even divinely righteous, by grace alone in Christ alone.

Not one single work that you perform can justify you before God Almighty, not one work.

On judgement day when your babbling about your legalism and your works. Standing before our eternal Lord
you will be saying to Jesus; look at my works!

Were you boasting in Jesus Christ or were you boasting in your works, your legalism?

We are talking about salvation here.

 

[Inquisitor]

3 work together: Whole washing, sanctification, and justification altogether complete.

When when unwashed, unsanctified, and unjustified works are repented of for Jesus' sake.



Heb 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,... seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


Act 2:22
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Jas 4:6
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
Psa 24:3
Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place? He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.

It's all in the hands, whether being guilty of shedding Jesus' innocent blood, or justified in cleansing our hands of His innocent blood.

Faith with good works is washed, sanctified, and justified.

Faith alone apart from works is washing one's hands of repentance, and only believing your innocent.

Matth 27:24
When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.

So it's you and Jesus working together?

 

[ATG]

That’s really my point. It sounds like the definition of *“faith alone”* you’re using isn’t the original one. The Reformation slogan was answering a very specific question: “What can I do to merit salvation from God?” And the answer was simply: nothing — salvation is not something we can earn.

The original argument for faith alone was: "Can I be saved by my faith alone, without doing good work."

James{2:14}
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?...Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Simple answer is: No. Salvation is not by faith alone without works.

Now, it’s possible I misunderstood what you were getting at. Maybe you’re focusing on how the phrase is used in current folk‑Christian language, and that’s a different discussion.

The argument remains the same: "Can I be saved by my faith alone without works?"

The answer remains the same: No. No faith alone without works cannot save any man.

James{2:14}
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?...Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

If that’s the case, I can’t really speak to that usage

You've never heard any Christian arguing their salvation is by faith alone apart from their works?

You've never heard any Christian ever say, that though they are still sinning against Christ, they are also still saved by their faith alone in Christ?

 

[ATG]

You’re right to point out that James talks about “faith without works” as dead, and I agree that James clearly expects faith to express itself in concrete action.

Faith is done by works. Without works, faith is undone, and cannot justify the man.

James{2:21}
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only…Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

Not all “works” are equal —

Exactly, works are good or evil.

Which is why no man can be without works, because everyone is either doing good or evil, not nothing at all:

Jas 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Luk 1:37
For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Which is why no living person on earth can be saved by faith alone without works, because it's impossible to be without works unless dead.

Isaiah 38:18
For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

Which is the dysfunctional nature of having any faith without works. Which remains unanswered by anyone preaching, that their salvation is only by their faith alone without any works being done. Then they must be as dead as their faith:

Jas 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The only practical answer is the simple one by Paul: Salvation can only be by faith without works of evil, and only by faith with works in Christ Jesus:

Eph 2:12
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Mat 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

I suspect James would include something deeper in his picture: works that actually cost us something, the kind of obedience, sacrifice, and integrity that cannot be faked because they flow from a transformed heart.

Only works of faith in Christ justify. Not any works without Christ.

In other words, James isn’t talking about performative goodness;

If you mean putting on a show for men's honor, not God's:

Matthew{23:5}
But all their works they do for to be seen of men:

Jhn 5:44
How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

Gal 1:10
For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

he’s talking about the kind of lived faith that shows itself when there’s no applause and no advantage to be gained.

Mat 6:4
That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

James is talking about having the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ and doing good, and not evil. Whether openly or in secret.

Jas 2:1
My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
That's the only faith that saves the soul, not any faith alone without doing good, which is evil.

Jas 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.