Dysfunctional Faith-Alone justification

[ATG]

How can any person have faith-alone without works, and also have their faith with works? How can any person be justified by faith-alone without works, and also by justified by their faith, with works?

Faith alone justification is logical and practical dysfunction. I.e. It can only justify a person by having faith-alone without works, then how can it work to justify anyone, that is practicing their faith.

Let's look at the logical and practical malfunction of justification by faith-alone without works: 1) It cannot be for people living their faith, since their faith is with works. 2) It be for anyone without works, since no living person can be without works.

1). Since faith-alone is only without works, then no person can have faith-alone with works.

And so, a person can only have faith-alone, when not practicing their faith. Else, their faith is with works, not alone without works.

Therefore, no living person can only be justified by faith-alone with works, and live by their faith. Else they are justified by their faith with works.

Either a person is justified by their faith-alone without works, or by their faith with works, not both: Else alone is no more alone, and works is no more works. As Scripture would say:

For if justification be by faith-alone, then is it no more with works: otherwise alone is no more alone. But if faith be with works, then is it no more justification by faith-alone: otherwise work is no more work.

And so, we conclude that justification by faith-alone without works, is not practical, because faith cannot be practiced, and also justify without works.

The only practical justification for the living, is by faith and with works. Else no living person can ever by justified by faith and live by their faith.

Hab 2:4
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

2). No living person can have faith-alone without works, since no living person can be without works. The living that do no works at all, is doing an evil work, by not doing good:

Jas 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Only the dead can do no works at all, and so only the dead can have faith-alone without works.

Jas 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

And yet, the dead can have no faith at all, else faith is no more faith, and dead is no more dead.

Conclusion: Justification by faith-alone without works, is so dysfunctional, that not even the dead can practice it, much less the living...

 

[Gideon300]

How can any person have faith-alone without works, and also have their faith with works? How can any person be justified by faith-alone without works, and also by justified by their faith, with works?

Faith alone justification is logical and practical dysfunction. I.e. It can only justify a person by having faith-alone without works, then how can it work to justify anyone, that is practicing their faith.

Let's look at the logical and practical malfunction of justification by faith-alone without works: 1) It cannot be for people living their faith, since their faith is with works. 2) It be for anyone without works, since no living person can be without works.

1). Since faith-alone is only without works, then no person can have faith-alone with works.

And so, a person can only have faith-alone, when not practicing their faith. Else, their faith is with works, not alone without works.

Therefore, no living person can only be justified by faith-alone with works, and live by their faith. Else they are justified by their faith with works.

Either a person is justified by their faith-alone without works, or by their faith with works, not both: Else alone is no more alone, and works is no more works. As Scripture would say:

For if justification be by faith-alone, then is it no more with works: otherwise alone is no more alone. But if faith be with works, then is it no more justification by faith-alone: otherwise work is no more work.

And so, we conclude that justification by faith-alone without works, is not practical, because faith cannot be practiced, and also justify without works.

The only practical justification for the living, is by faith and with works. Else no living person can ever by justified by faith and live by their faith.

Hab 2:4
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

2). No living person can have faith-alone without works, since no living person can be without works. The living that do no works at all, is doing an evil work, by not doing good:

Jas 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Only the dead can do no works at all, and so only the dead can have faith-alone without works.

Jas 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

And yet, the dead can have no faith at all, else faith is no more faith, and dead is no more dead.

Conclusion: Justification by faith-alone without works, is so dysfunctional, that not even the dead can practice it, much less the living...

You do not understand what it means to be born again. Neither do you know what faith is.

 

[Inquisitor]

How can any person have faith-alone without works, and also have their faith with works? How can any person be justified by faith-alone without works, and also by justified by their faith, with works?

A simple answer.

Jesus reconciled us to Himself and we were dead in our sin when He did that.

Jesus atoned for all our unrighteousness through His perfect sacrifice.

This is the reason why we are saved and it's Saved By That Grace through faith...and not of yourselves...(Ephesians 2:8).

The gospel of grace is a free gift it's not something you earn.

Romans 5:15
But the free gift is not like the transgression.

Romans 5:16
But on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The gospel of God's grace towards us, that free gift, is available to anyone that calls on the name of Jesus.

The gospel of grace is not about you and never was about you, your the unworthy recipient of God's grace.

 

[Inquisitor]

How can any person have faith-alone without works, and also have their faith with works? How can any person be justified by faith-alone without works, and also by justified by their faith, with works?

Faith alone justification is logical and practical dysfunction. I.e. It can only justify a person by having faith-alone without works, then how can it work to justify anyone, that is practicing their faith.

Let's look at the logical and practical malfunction of justification by faith-alone without works: 1) It cannot be for people living their faith, since their faith is with works. 2) It be for anyone without works, since no living person can be without works.

1). Since faith-alone is only without works, then no person can have faith-alone with works.

And so, a person can only have faith-alone, when not practicing their faith. Else, their faith is with works, not alone without works.

Therefore, no living person can only be justified by faith-alone with works, and live by their faith. Else they are justified by their faith with works.

Either a person is justified by their faith-alone without works, or by their faith with works, not both: Else alone is no more alone, and works is no more works. As Scripture would say:

For if justification be by faith-alone, then is it no more with works: otherwise alone is no more alone. But if faith be with works, then is it no more justification by faith-alone: otherwise work is no more work.

And so, we conclude that justification by faith-alone without works, is not practical, because faith cannot be practiced, and also justify without works.

The only practical justification for the living, is by faith and with works. Else no living person can ever by justified by faith and live by their faith.

Hab 2:4
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

2). No living person can have faith-alone without works, since no living person can be without works. The living that do no works at all, is doing an evil work, by not doing good:

Jas 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Only the dead can do no works at all, and so only the dead can have faith-alone without works.

Jas 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

And yet, the dead can have no faith at all, else faith is no more faith, and dead is no more dead.

Conclusion: Justification by faith-alone without works, is so dysfunctional, that not even the dead can practice it, much less the living...

What work do you propose will save someone?

 

[tablet123]

We always have to have works whether Old or New Testament for we must labor for the kingdom of God and to be right with Him.

The Bible says charity, love in action, works, is greater than faith.

And faith works by love.

Works of love is greater than faith.

No love then faith is void.

John said do not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed, works, and in truth.

Love is only valid in works.

We are not saved by works but by faith when we first confess Christ for that is all we can do.

For the works of the Old Testament physical laws or anything we do according to the flesh will give us salvation.

But after we are saved we have to allow the Spirit to lead us to do works of love which love is the fulfilling of the law.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James 2:25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

It is obvious we have to have works of love by the Spirit to have faith applied to our life.

1 Corinthians 2:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Paul said He could have all faith to remove mountains, but if he did not have charity, works, then he is nothing.

Paul said the same thing as James but people want to argue over the 2 as if there is a contradiction.

They do not understand when Paul talks about works and try to carry that throughout their Christian walk after they confessed Christ.

They say faith alone but we have to have works.

Also it is love alone and everything stems from love including faith and love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[Inquisitor]

We always have to have works whether Old or New Testament for we must labor for the kingdom of God and to be right with Him.

The Bible says charity, love in action, works, is greater than faith.

And faith works by love.

Works of love is greater than faith.

No love then faith is void.

John said do not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed, works, and in truth.

Love is only valid in works.

We are not saved by works but by faith when we first confess Christ for that is all we can do.

For the works of the Old Testament physical laws or anything we do according to the flesh will give us salvation.

But after we are saved we have to allow the Spirit to lead us to do works of love which love is the fulfilling of the law.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James 2:25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

It is obvious we have to have works of love by the Spirit to have faith applied to our life.

1 Corinthians 2:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Paul said He could have all faith to remove mountains, but if he did not have charity, works, then he is nothing.

Paul said the same thing as James but people want to argue over the 2 as if there is a contradiction.

They do not understand when Paul talks about works and try to carry that throughout their Christian walk after they confessed Christ.

They say faith alone but we have to have works.

Also it is love alone and everything stems from love including faith and love is the fulfilling of the law.

Israel was under the law and Gentile nations were not under the law.

We don't need to fulfill the law because Jesus did that for Israel.

We Gentiles are grafted into the Jesus rather than being a cultivated olive tree.

We are saved by grace through faith.

We are not saved because of specific work we have performed.

It is good to boast in Jesus and live a life of gratitude for His reconciliation.

 

[Aussie52]

Here we go again! As if we haven't discussed this topic over & over ad, infinitum.

 

[timf]

It can be confusing if one combines the requirements for Israel under the kingdom gospel with the requirements for Christians under the grace gospel for the gentiles.

That there is a period of immaturity for new believers can be seen in Corinth.

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

Sadly most Christian today do not grow much in their faith, but are still justified because under the grace gospel one is justified when they are placed into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit. It is in this placement by which the blood of Christ covers our sins.

 

[Aussie52]

Out comes the Legalists and the Antinomians to do battle. Neither which have any idea of the truth about Law and Grace.

Me? No, I have been in this battle before and got forcibly shut down by the Antinomians.

Enjoy your debate!

 

[JohnDB]

Here we go again! As if we haven't discussed this topic over & over ad, infinitum.

Nothing like false dichotomies and moving goalposts.

 

[Inquisitor]

For the works of the Old Testament physical laws or anything we do according to the flesh will give us salvation.

Can you explain what you mean above?

 

[CS1]

How can any person have faith-alone without works, and also have their faith with works? How can any person be justified by faith-alone without works, and also by justified by their faith, with works?

Faith alone justification is logical and practical dysfunction. I.e. It can only justify a person by having faith-alone without works, then how can it work to justify anyone, that is practicing their faith.

Let's look at the logical and practical malfunction of justification by faith-alone without works: 1) It cannot be for people living their faith, since their faith is with works. 2) It be for anyone without works, since no living person can be without works.

1). Since faith-alone is only without works, then no person can have faith-alone with works.

And so, a person can only have faith-alone, when not practicing their faith. Else, their faith is with works, not alone without works.

Therefore, no living person can only be justified by faith-alone with works, and live by their faith. Else they are justified by their faith with works.

Either a person is justified by their faith-alone without works, or by their faith with works, not both: Else alone is no more alone, and works is no more works. As Scripture would say:

For if justification be by faith-alone, then is it no more with works: otherwise alone is no more alone. But if faith be with works, then is it no more justification by faith-alone: otherwise work is no more work.

And so, we conclude that justification by faith-alone without works, is not practical, because faith cannot be practiced, and also justify without works.

The only practical justification for the living, is by faith and with works. Else no living person can ever by justified by faith and live by their faith.

Hab 2:4
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

2). No living person can have faith-alone without works, since no living person can be without works. The living that do no works at all, is doing an evil work, by not doing good:

Jas 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Only the dead can do no works at all, and so only the dead can have faith-alone without works.

Jas 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

And yet, the dead can have no faith at all, else faith is no more faith, and dead is no more dead.

Conclusion: Justification by faith-alone without works, is so dysfunctional, that not even the dead can practice it, much less the living...

interesting question you ask.


I was wondering is a person is saved by the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ yet is limited due to disabilities to where his works are not clearly seen by man does he have works to do? what is their is a Cognitive disability that greatly hinder ones communication ? How is the works defined? And IS God still able to know them where man cannot?

 

[Soyeong]

How can any person have faith-alone without works, and also have their faith with works? How can any person be justified by faith-alone without works, and also by justified by their faith, with works?

Faith alone justification is logical and practical dysfunction. I.e. It can only justify a person by having faith-alone without works, then how can it work to justify anyone, that is practicing their faith.

Let's look at the logical and practical malfunction of justification by faith-alone without works: 1) It cannot be for people living their faith, since their faith is with works. 2) It be for anyone without works, since no living person can be without works.

1). Since faith-alone is only without works, then no person can have faith-alone with works.

And so, a person can only have faith-alone, when not practicing their faith. Else, their faith is with works, not alone without works.

Therefore, no living person can only be justified by faith-alone with works, and live by their faith. Else they are justified by their faith with works.

Either a person is justified by their faith-alone without works, or by their faith with works, not both: Else alone is no more alone, and works is no more works. As Scripture would say:

For if justification be by faith-alone, then is it no more with works: otherwise alone is no more alone. But if faith be with works, then is it no more justification by faith-alone: otherwise work is no more work.

And so, we conclude that justification by faith-alone without works, is not practical, because faith cannot be practiced, and also justify without works.

The only practical justification for the living, is by faith and with works. Else no living person can ever by justified by faith and live by their faith.

Hab 2:4
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

2). No living person can have faith-alone without works, since no living person can be without works. The living that do no works at all, is doing an evil work, by not doing good:

Jas 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Only the dead can do no works at all, and so only the dead can have faith-alone without works.

Jas 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

And yet, the dead can have no faith at all, else faith is no more faith, and dead is no more dead.

Conclusion: Justification by faith-alone without works, is so dysfunctional, that not even the dead can practice it, much less the living...

Someone can be alone apart from the company of other humans while not being alone apart from the company of their pets, so someone can be alone and not alone at the same time in different senses. We can do works for a variety of reason, such as in order to earn a wage, in order to embody our faith, in order to embody our love, in order to look good in the eyes of others, in order to build a relationship, in order to repair the world, and so forth, so it is important to recognize that the Bible can speak against being required to do works for incorrect reasons without speaking against being required to do them for the reasons that God commanded them. In Romans 3:28-31, we are declared righteous by faith alone apart from works done in order to earn our it as the result, but we are not declared righteous by faith alone apart from becoming a doer of righteous works in obedience to the Law of God. The significance of our obedience to the Law of God has absolutely nothing to do with trying to earn our righteousness as the result, but rather the significance is that it is the way to embody our faith, and it is by that faith alone apart from works does in order to earn it as the result that we are declared righteous. The righteous are those one whose heart is the Law of God (Isaiah 51:7), so the Bible does not present the righteous living by faith as being an alternative to living in obedience to the Law of God, but rather it presents the righteous living by faith as being the manner in which we live in obedience to the Law of God as an alternative to living in obedience to it in order to earn a wage.

 

[Soyeong]

It can be confusing if one combines the requirements for Israel under the kingdom gospel with the requirements for Christians under the grace gospel for the gentiles.

That there is a period of immaturity for new believers can be seen in Corinth.

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

Sadly most Christian today do not grow much in their faith, but are still justified because under the grace gospel one is justified when they are placed into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit. It is in this placement by which the blood of Christ covers our sins.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of Moses was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom/Grace, which Paul also taught based on the Law of Moses:

Acts 14:21-22 When they had preached the gospel to that city and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch, 22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

Acts 20:24-25 But I do not account my life of any value nor as precious to myself, if only I may finish my course and the ministry that I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God. 25 And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again.

Acts 28:23 When they had appointed a day for him, they came to him at his lodging in greater numbers. From morning till evening he expounded to them, testifying to the kingdom of God and trying to convince them about Jesus both from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets.

 

[Ceph]

And IS God still able to know them where man cannot?

God knows every single grain of sand underground, the trajectory of every drop of rain before He even forms the cloud, the will of every insect that flies and crawls around, and the perspective of every invividual person. You're sharing the place behind your eyes with Him.

Every little tiny operation of every cell in your body is in His hand. He also has your imaginations clearer and more complete than you yourself can recon. He can experience your imaginations like they're real life playing out.

 

[Inquisitor]

Out comes the Legalists and the Antinomians to do battle. Neither which have any idea of the truth about Law and Grace.

Me? No, I have been in this battle before and got forcibly shut down by the Antinomians.

Enjoy your debate!

I think I can expand on your reply.

"Out comes the legalists (Exodus 24) and the Antinomians (Grace) to do battle"

Romans 5:1-2
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom
also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand.

Our salvation is a free gift and is not earned by obedience to the law.

Now that we know how we are saved we can sum up the Christian life in one word.

Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

[Inquisitor]

In Romans 3:28-31, we are declared righteous by faith alone apart from works done in order to earn our it as the result, but we are not declared righteous by faith alone apart from becoming a doer of righteous works in obedience to the Law of God.

Not sure what you are saying in the quotation above; can you explain it again because it appears to be
a contradictory statement.

 

[Aussie52]

I think I can expand on your reply.

"Out comes the legalists (Exodus 24) and the Antinomians (Grace) to do battle"

Romans 5:1-2
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom
also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand.

Our salvation is a free gift and is not earned by obedience to the law.

Now that we know how we are saved we can sum up the Christian life in one word.

Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Antinomianism means ' without law'. It is the theological view that the Christian is not obligated to keep the moral law of God. It is the essence of sin,' Whosoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.' 1Jn 3:5.
Jesus summed up the Moral Law of God when he said the Law was fulfilled in, loving God with our whole being and our neighbor as ourselves.
Jude referenced Antinomianism is his day when he spoke of, 'ungodly men, who turn the grace ungodly God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.' Jude 4.
Antinomianism is very popular today.

 

[ATG]

A simple answer.

Jesus reconciled us to Himself and we were dead in our sin when He did that.

Jesus atoned for all our unrighteousness through His perfect sacrifice.

This is the reason why we are saved and it's Saved By That Grace through faith...and not of yourselves...(Ephesians 2:8).

The gospel of grace is a free gift it's not something you earn.

Romans 5:15
But the free gift is not like the transgression.

Romans 5:16
But on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Doesn't answer the dysfunction of having faith alone, but since you're not preaching it, then it's not necessary.

 

[ATG]

What work do you propose will save someone?

Another non answer. In any case, ask Jesus Christ. He's the Savior. The answer certainly isn't doing nothing.

Luke 10
And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

Act 16:29
Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Acts 2:37
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?...

Are you without works? How then can you be alive, much less be justified with the living God?

Unless someone can answer the dysfunction of faith alone without works, then no one can be saved without works, since it's impossible to be alive without works.

Jas 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Not doing any good, is an evil work. Therefore, with God it's impossible to have faith-alone without works:

Luk 1:37
For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Only the dead do nothing.