Dysfunctional Faith-Alone justification

[Soyeong]

Paul never taught the law of moses. He used it as a starting point to bring his listeners into the knowledge of Jesus saving grace through Faith alone. He was jewish so he kept the customs just like Jesus. But he did not promote it as a nessessity for salvation or a relation with God.

I just showed that he taught the Law of Moses. In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Law of Moses, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through alone.

The Hebrew word "yada" refers to intimate relationships/knowledge gained through experience, such as with Genesis 4:1 where Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. God's way is the way to know (yada) Him and Jesus by experiencing embodying His character traits, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). For example, in Genesis 18:19, God knew (yada) Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He has promised. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know (yada) Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the Law of Moses is to graciously teach us how to experience an intimate relationship with God and Jesus, which is His gift of eternal life.

 

[CS1]

The perfect Christian life is a life devoted to the most defenceless in all of society and especially the orphans.

I am just generating ideas for you.

I don't believe we are saved by anything (legal works or righteous works) we can do.

I believe that our salvation is by grace and belongs to Jesus alone.

Salvation is a free gift from start to finish.

what work do you do ?

 

[JacobGilbert]

How can any person have faith-alone without works, and also have their faith with works? How can any person be justified by faith-alone without works, and also by justified by their faith, with works?

Faith alone justification is logical and practical dysfunction. I.e. It can only justify a person by having faith-alone without works, then how can it work to justify anyone, that is practicing their faith.

Let's look at the logical and practical malfunction of justification by faith-alone without works: 1) It cannot be for people living their faith, since their faith is with works. 2) It be for anyone without works, since no living person can be without works.

1). Since faith-alone is only without works, then no person can have faith-alone with works.

And so, a person can only have faith-alone, when not practicing their faith. Else, their faith is with works, not alone without works.

Therefore, no living person can only be justified by faith-alone with works, and live by their faith. Else they are justified by their faith with works.

Either a person is justified by their faith-alone without works, or by their faith with works, not both: Else alone is no more alone, and works is no more works. As Scripture would say:

For if justification be by faith-alone, then is it no more with works: otherwise alone is no more alone. But if faith be with works, then is it no more justification by faith-alone: otherwise work is no more work.

And so, we conclude that justification by faith-alone without works, is not practical, because faith cannot be practiced, and also justify without works.

The only practical justification for the living, is by faith and with works. Else no living person can ever by justified by faith and live by their faith.

Hab 2:4
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

2). No living person can have faith-alone without works, since no living person can be without works. The living that do no works at all, is doing an evil work, by not doing good:

Jas 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Only the dead can do no works at all, and so only the dead can have faith-alone without works.

Jas 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

And yet, the dead can have no faith at all, else faith is no more faith, and dead is no more dead.

Conclusion: Justification by faith-alone without works, is so dysfunctional, that not even the dead can practice it, much less the living...

Justification by faith alone is not contradictory, it rests on a clear biblical distinction:


Justification (being declared righteous before God) is by faith alone in Christ’s finished work. Our works contribute nothing to the verdict (Romans 3:28, 4:5; Eph 2:8-9).


True saving faith is never alone in a living believer — it always produces works as fruit and evidence (Eph 2:10; James 2:14-26). The Reformers put it simply: “We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone.”


Your dilemma confuses the ground of justification with its fruit:

Faith alone = the instrument by which we receive Christ’s righteousness.
Works = the necessary proof that the faith is genuine and alive.

James 2 does not teach justification by works. It teaches that “faith without works is dead”. A dead faith (no fruit) cannot justify anyone. Paul and James combat opposite errors: Paul fights legalism, James fights antinomianism.


Living people do have works, which is exactly why dead faith is useless. No Protestant claims justified Christians can live without works. The “alone” refers to the basis before God, not the absence of all fruit in life.


Your Romans 11:6-style parody misses this category distinction. It’s like saying a tree is alive by its roots alone, therefore it cannot have fruit — yet living trees always do. The fruit proves the life; it doesn’t create it.


Habakkuk 2:4 is fully compatible: the just live by faith (ongoing trust that produces obedience), but they are justified by that faith, not by the obedience it produces.


Bottom line: Justification by faith alone is not dysfunctional. It is liberating, we are accepted in Christ, not by our performance, while real faith necessarily transforms how we live. Only counterfeit faith stays alone.

 

[legion]

I just showed that he taught the Law of Moses. In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Law of Moses, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through alone.

The Hebrew word "yada" refers to intimate relationships/knowledge gained through experience, such as with Genesis 4:1 where Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. God's way is the way to know (yada) Him and Jesus by experiencing embodying His character traits, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). For example, in Genesis 18:19, God knew (yada) Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He has promised. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know (yada) Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the Law of Moses is to graciously teach us how to experience an intimate relationship with God and Jesus, which is His gift of eternal life.

Here's the first part of your problem as long as you can or a believer that the Mosaic law has any part in the Christian Life you have blinders on and can't see the truth

Next is how stupid do you actually have to be to completely discard 2000 years of the existence of the New Covenant not having anything to do with the Mosaic Covenant until a little thing called the internet came along and brought the heresy back into the fold

I understand that when you look at the verses in the Bible your presuppositions override your common sense as to what's being done let me clarify for you again

Paul's use of the Mosaic law or references into the Old Testament of which Palms is not part of the Torah or the Mosaic law however is to show how it is graduated from that point to the point of the New Covenant under grace you see you haven't read the Bible and understood it because you don't understand the Mosaic law you don't understand the New Covenant either and you don't understand Christianity

 

[ATG]

While I agree that on one alive can be void of any kind of works, the position of by faith through grace apart from works is not referring to any kind of works, but rather it is referring to a specific kind of works that everyone can be alive apart from.

Right. You're not talking about faith alone apart from any and all works we do, but only faith that is apart from any evil doing: Dead works done apart from Christ without faith.

Rom 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

That's the gospel Paul preaches being justified by faith without our past dead works. Which includes any of our works of righteousness, law, and charity, that are without faith in Jesus Christ.

2Ti 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Titus{3:4}
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Heb 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

It's not that we have no works in our past

Correct. No person living can have no works past, present, nor future, so long as they are alive on earth.

However, as you say, it's our past dead works are as though never done, because Jesus forgives and forgets them:

Heb 8:12
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Which is how salvation of Jesus is as newborn babes, that have yet done any works on earth:

1Pe 2:2
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,

Rom 9:11
For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

which is what it means to be saved by grace through faith alone.

False. That's what it means to be saved by faith without our past works, not by faith that is alone.

When one thing is apart from another thing, then that is what it means to be alone, so it is not adding anything to Scripture.

False again. This is your logical error, that enables you to preach something false, and then have to clarify.

Being apart from some thing, means it's only apart from that thing, not apart from all things.

Justifying faith in Christ is only apart from dead works, not apart from good works of faith, that justify the believer with Christ.

Please quote a single person who believes that we are justified by faith without the works that are require to be alive.

OSAS faith alone Christianity only preaches being saved and justified apart from any works.

Being alive requires works only disproves the dysfunctional impossibility of ever being without any works on earth. OSAS Christians will never include that, and undo their own gospel of justification by faith alone without works...

"The argument is sophistical and the refutation is resolved grammatically. In the major premise, "faith" ought to be placed with the word "justifies" and the portion of the sentence "without works justifies" is placed in a predicate periphrase and must refer to the word "justifies," not to "faith." In the minor premise, "without works" is truly in the subject periphrase and refers to faith.

Scripture is more simple and easier to understand: Faith without works is dead, being alone. And by works a man is justified, not by faith only.

Justification is with faith and works. Neither being alone without the other.

We say that justification is effective without works, not that faith is without works.

Interesting. Never heard it before. Thanks.

While it's certainly true the justified man is still justified while asleep without works, no one alive and awake can be without works, nor being justified by any faith without works.

"Without works" is ambiguous, then.

Not to Scripture: Faith without works is dead, being alone...

Nor is it the least ambiguous to OSAS Christians, that trust they are justified by their faith alone without works. They know exactly what 'without works' means: No works have anything to do with their justification by faith alone...

People who preach the Bible and Luther's gospel of justification by faith without works, not by faith that is alone, know that without works is only without our past dead works.

They can therefore get confused by the nonbiblical OSAS justification by faith alone without works, being faith that is alone...

For that reason this argument settles nothing. It is one thing that faith justifies without works; it is another thing that faith exists without works."

The first is false and dysfunctional, due to the latter.

The argument simply forces any reasonable person to reject justification by faith, that is alone without works, because then they have to be dead or asleep or in coma to ever be justified by their faith alone, that is alone without works...

Rom 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

 

[ATG]

“And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭4‬:‭5‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Good quote of Scripture.

Now, how can any person have faith-alone without works, and also have their faith with works? How can any person be justified by faith-alone without works, and also by justified by their faith, with works?

 

[Soyeong]

Here's the first part of your problem as long as you can or a believer that the Mosaic law has any part in the Christian Life you have blinders on and can't see the truth

Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to follow the Mosaic Law by word and by example and the Christian Life is about following what Christ taught, not about refusing to follow what he taught. The Mosaic Law is truth (Psalm 119:142), so you are the one who can't see the truth.

Next is how stupid do you actually have to be to completely discard 2000 years of the existence of the New Covenant not having anything to do with the Mosaic Covenant until a little thing called the internet came along and brought the heresy back into the fold

I have discarded the New Covenant and it is blatantly false that it has nothing to do with the Mosaic Covenant. The reason that Jesus established the New Covenant was not in order to nullify anything that he spent his ministry teaching by word or by example or so that we could continue to have the same lawlessness that cause the New Covenant to be needed in the first place, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 36:26-27). Notice that I cited what Scripture says, not the internet. The position that followers of Christ should follow his example of what God has commanded is fundamental to Christianity, but if that is heresy then we should all be heretics. What should be considered to be heresy is speaking against obeying what God has commanded.

I understand that when you look at the verses in the Bible your presuppositions override your common sense as to what's being done let me clarify for you again

Paul's use of the Mosaic law or references into the Old Testament of which Palms is not part of the Torah or the Mosaic law however is to show how it is graduated from that point to the point of the New Covenant under grace you see you haven't read the Bible and understood it because you don't understand the Mosaic law you don't understand the New Covenant either and you don't understand Christianity

When I use Scripture to thoroughly support my position and you take a position that is contrary to what is stated in Scripture, then you show that you are the one who has not understood the Bible, the Law of Moses, grace, the New Covenant, and Christianity. Christianity is about following Christ.

 

[ATG]

Faith alone is about having.

Bible Faith is about having. Man's faith alone is about not having.

James{2:14}
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?...Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

 

[ATG]

Heb 11:8 By faith, Abraham went out not knowing where he was going, so nobody else could see where he was going either.
Heb 11:9 By faith, he dwelt in the promised land as a stranger in a foreign country. He lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob who were fellow heirs with him of the same promise. So, nobody else could see their 'faith' in that promise.
Heb 11:10 Abraham looked forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. So, nobody could see that city either.
Heb 11:11-12 from a barren womb and Abraham, one man as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars and as countless as the sand on the seashore. Who could have known that this couple was at any time barren?
Heb 11: 13 (All) These, along with the preceding examples of faith, died in faith not having received what they were promised but seeing and welcoming them from afar off, acknowledging they were strangers and exiles on the either. Who else saw that?

Heb 11:17-19 When tested, by faith Abraham offered up his (uniquely) begotten son on the altar reasoning that God could raise the dead. As far as Abraham could see, if he obeyed God, and he had every intention to, his miraculous son was dead. He did not see the resurrection but saw it afar off in the form of a ram, whose horns were caught in the thicket (even that is a message if you consider the horns representation of power and the ram representative of the means of the way to resurrection).
But everyone else probably just saw it as some mundane, though happy, coincidence.

I'm sure you have a good point. But, I'll stick with the argument at hand. Thanks anyway.

 

[ATG]

ATG said:
Faith in Christ without obeying the law is dead faith.
Where in the scripture do any of the apostles teach that?

Jas 2:8
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Jas 2:14
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

1Jo 3:16
Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

Jas 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Where in the N.T does it say that a Gentile Christian must obey the law?

Goodbye.

 

[ATG]

We are justified, sanctified, and are blameless, perfected, even divinely righteous, by grace alone in Christ alone.

No unrepentant transgressor is righteous with Jesus Christ the righteous.

However, the god of this world certainly does justify them transgressing God's commandments. He loves them doing it too.

Not one single work that you perform can justify you before God Almighty, not one work.

Certainly not with the transgressors doing evil.

Psa 37:38
But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.

On judgement day when your babbling about your legalism and your works. Standing before our eternal Lord
you will be saying to Jesus; look at my works!

The true God is already looking at our works to judge us by. Whether we want Him to or not.

Gal 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting…For there is no respect of persons with God.

So, keep babbling on about your own faith alone justifying you with your christ... Until the grave.

Were you boasting in Jesus Christ or were you boasting in your works, your legalism?

All works of faith boast in Jesus Christ. All boasting of faith alone is in words alone.

Ps 12:3
The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things: Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our words are our own: who is lord over us?

We are talking about salvation here.

I'm talking about Jesus' salvation from sinning.

Mat 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sinning.

You're talking about your christ' salvation with sinning.

 

[ATG]

So it's you and Jesus working together?

Of course. That's what happens when Jesus works with us to do good and not evil.

Phl 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

[ATG]

Being declared righteousness through faith alone is in perfect accordance with being declared righteous by doing God's righteousness through faith and imputed righteousness.

Through faith doing His righteousness. Not through faith alone doing nothing.

James{2:14}
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?...Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

While the only way to become righteous is through faith alone apart from being required to have first done enough righteous works in order to earn it as the result,

Whew. Mouthful of learned stuff.

Scripture is simpler: No man is justified by works of our own righteousness without faith in Jesus Christ.

2Ti 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Titus{3:4}
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

it is contradictory for someone to be righteous without being a doer of righteous works through faith.

Amen to that brother.

1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 

[ATG]

No. I can't say that I have. I don't recall ever hearing a Christian say that.

Good. Neither did I before I heard it.

When I was growing up, the big question on everyone's mind was how to avoid sinning.

Not mine. I was a wiflful unrepentant sinner. I didn't even know about repenting from what I most loved to do.

Until by God's mercy I listened to Jesus Christ:

Mat 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Acts{3:19}
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Sinners stop sinning against God, by repenting for Jesus's sake. He then comes to stop the sinning with us:

Mat 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sinning.

But James was dealing with people who claimed to have faith

James is about people having dead faith without works. It's dead.

James{2:14}
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?...Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Just believe the Scriptures, and leave out all the questioning among people.

We must be clear about what kind of "works" James had in mind.

Good works with living faith. No good works with dead faith.

When James says that “faith without works is dead,” he is not urging Christians to add charity projects to their schedule.

No, Peter does that:

2 pet 1:4
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

James preaches against having faith without adding works, which is dead, and Peter preaches adding works to faith, which is alive.

Haven't I already quote this Scripture to you?

He is describing the *inner logic* of genuine faith.

There is no inner logic of faith. Only living faith with works, vs dead faith without works:

Hab 2:4
For the just shall live by his faith.

Heb 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith:

James assumes that if God has forgiven you, you will forgive; if God has shown mercy, you will show mercy; if God has loved you, you will love.

James is talking about giving things needful to the body, to brethren that have bodily needs. John too.

James 2:15
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

1 John 3:17
But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

This is why James insists that works reveal whether faith is alive or dead.

Correct. Faith without works is dead. Faith with works is alive.

He is not saying that works complete faith as a separate ingredient;

Works added to faith are not separate from faith. Only works not added to faith are separate from faith.

James{2:21}
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

These are not add‑ons to faith—

2 pet 1:4
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

 

[ATG]

You need to concisely identify the sole cause of salvation!

Ezek 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Mat 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Acts{3:19}
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Acts 2:37
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?...Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts{11:18}
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the nations granted repentance unto life.

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Heb 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Notice anything concisely in common with the gospel of Jesus Christ...

 

[Inquisitor]

Ezek 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Mat 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Acts{3:19}
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Acts 2:37
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?...Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts{11:18}
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the nations granted repentance unto life.

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Heb 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Notice anything concisely in common with the gospel of Jesus Christ...

I think that you may not agree with the following verse.

Romans 10:13
For “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Do you accept Romans 10:13 or not?

 

[2Christ]

Did you read the post?

in part I read it but AI cannot understand the spiritual nature of the words within the bible. DO not rely on it, its great for grammar and to search the bible for cross references but it replies on interpretations from the web, if you ask AI to use ONLY the words from the bible without directing the text by a loaded question ( it wants to please you and will do as you ask) you will have a different answer,

Posting the question you send to AI is as essential as its answer, they go together or its meaningless, also try the same question in chat GPT, claude AI and Perplexity and see the different answers you would get.

In AI it is possible to have a permanent "filter" that you add yourself for instance like I did, in chat GPT for bible verse searches : 1- search the NKJV and KJV only, 2-do not use any interpretations from commentaties ot the web, but only the words as written in the bible, see if you can find similat verses with the same approximate meaning.

ect.....


these will completely change the answer you get, try it and see.

 

[Proximus]

Paul never taught the law of moses. He used it as a starting point to bring his listeners into the knowledge of Jesus saving grace through Faith alone. He was jewish so he kept the customs just like Jesus. But he did not promote it as a nessessity for salvation or a relation with God.

He differentiate the law of the faith (including the spiritual moral commandments), and the law of the ceremonial works.

By the expression "law of the works" he understood in some contexts merely ceremonial law, including the circumcision, with which the Judaic Church was quite proud, and the works of the spiritual-moral commandments, such as Decalogue, and He was saying that men will be judged by it. Certainly, not by whether the christians followed judaic ceremonies of sacrifices and circumcision.

Understanding the words while eleminination the context can lead to the various conclusions, which are not sane and reasonable, and contrary to the words of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Proximus]

The perfect Christian life is a life devoted to the most defenceless in all of society and especially the orphans.

I am just generating ideas for you.

I don't believe we are saved by anything (legal works or righteous works) we can do.

I believe that our salvation is by grace and belongs to Jesus alone.

Salvation is a free gift from start to finish.

We are saved by the Lord alone. But for this we need faith, as the Lord teaches, the merit for which is the Lord's, and the life according to the commandments (check my lists of the quoted words of the Lord above, and also from the epistles), but the merit for this also belongs to the Lord. The point of faith and charity, is that, by faith and shunning evils as sins, and man is regenerated, thus is slowly accepting new intellectual and new will, and due to those he can be saved, for he then has heaven within.

He cannot be saved by any amount of ceremonial sacrifices, and even circumcision, in place of which the baptism was instituted.

So, a man is indeed saved by the Lord' Divine Mercy, but apart from the means of salvation, which are the the faith, and the TRUE works of the law, that is, shunning evils as sins according to the Commandments, salvation cannot be given, for it is not received, like the wolf which is not the dove. But a man is not saved by the ceremonical works of the law.

 

[Roger316]

Good works with living faith. No good works with dead faith.

When James speaks of “works,” he is not urging believers to add charity projects to their schedule; he is calling for acts of allegiance that distinguish genuine faith from the hostility of the surrounding culture. His audience was being mistreated simply for belonging to Jesus, and in that setting, the contrast between a believer and a persecutor was sharp. A hater would refuse a thirsty Christian a cup of water, but a man of faith would give it. A hater would never visit a believer in prison, but a man of faith would. A hater would cling to his own group, but a man of faith would stand with the brothers and sisters who bear Christ’s name. These are the “works” James has in mind—behaviors that reveal whose side you are on, the faithful God or the hostile world. They are not random good deeds but the visible loyalty that flows from genuine trust in Christ.

I appreciate the thought you’ve put into your argument, and I think it would be even stronger if it took into account the **kinds** of works James is talking about. As we’ve discussed, James isn’t dealing with the fact that everyone “does something,” but with the way certain actions reveal allegiance in a hostile environment. His point is not that any work cancels faith, but that specific, costly acts of loyalty distinguish genuine faith from empty claims. If we keep that distinction in view, your concern about “everyone doing some kind of work” can be sharpened and clarified, because James is speaking about works that *mean* something—works that show whose side a person is on.