True...but we are not right because we are now. Watch out for temporal snobbery. Not accusing you...just a word of warning.
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Mystery Babylon is a line of satanic puppetry
satan>Jerusalem>Rome>Image>Mecca>bankers in London>bankers in NY>continually>down>the>line>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Revelation 13:13
It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people,
Revelation 13:4they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?"
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yogosans14
Guest
Even if some did Gods word speaks about divisions which happened when Martin Luther broke away from the RCC and spawned 40,000 denomations
1 Corinthians 1:10King James Version (KJV)
10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
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yogosans14
Guest
Mystery Babylon is a line of satanic puppetry
satan>Jerusalem>Rome>Image>Mecca>bankers in London>bankers in NY>continually>down>the>line>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Revelation 13:13
It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people,
Revelation 13:4they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?"
None of this makes sense...sounds like conspirarcy theories
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Sophia
Guest
The Catholic Church, under Augustine, persecuted Christians who did not agree with Catholicism, and burned their documents and writings. The "Church Fathers" writings that are left are the ones kept by daughters of Augustine's religion: the RCC and the Eastern Orthodox Church. They kept what they agreed with, and burned the rest.
SeaBass...It is true that we believe Sacred Tradition to be infallible, in that it will not fail...not that it is inerrant...which only Sacred Scripture is acknowledged to have.
Such as whom? The Manachaens who were apostates. The Pelagians who were heretics. The Donatists who doctrinally agreed with the Catholics.
so the bible only exist on paper but not in reality?
or is every day that plays out foretold in the word?
There are major disagreements among Catholics on various issues, even so called "infallible" Popes have contradicted each other.
Catholicism is one of those 40,000 man-made denominations and has no ties to Acts 2. Organized Catholicism began 3-4 centuries AFTER Acts 2.
If you are a Christian you are catholic (as in universal). If you mean Roman Catholic then you are dealing with an oxymoron (as the term 'Roman' defeats the concept of catholic).
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Sophia
Guest
Do you deny the violence of Constantine and Augustine in dealing with anyone they viewed as a heretic?
They burned churches, letters, books, and preachers.
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yogosans14
Guest
How do you know it wasnt the church Jesus started in Matthew 16?because your interpation says so
the pope claims to be the:
Vicar of Christ (from Latin Vicarius Christi) is the term used in different ways, with different theological connotations throughout history. As the original notion a vicar is of "earthly representative of God or Christ" but also used in sense of "person acting as parish priest in place of a real parson"[SUP][1][/SUP] The title is now used in Catholicism to refer to the bishops[SUP][2][/SUP] and more specifically to the Bishop of Rome (the pope)
they have "usurped" His role in their imaginations....
John (Yahchanan) 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166. poimén)."
John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."
1 Timothy 2:5, "For One is Yahweh; and One Mediator between Yahweh and men: the Man, Yahshua Messiah."
1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
Vicar of Christ (from Latin Vicarius Christi) is the term used in different ways, with different theological connotations throughout history. As the original notion a vicar is of "earthly representative of God or Christ" but also used in sense of "person acting as parish priest in place of a real parson"[SUP][1][/SUP] The title is now used in Catholicism to refer to the bishops[SUP][2][/SUP] and more specifically to the Bishop of Rome (the pope)
they have "usurped" His role in their imaginations....
John (Yahchanan) 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166. poimén)."
John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."
1 Timothy 2:5, "For One is Yahweh; and One Mediator between Yahweh and men: the Man, Yahshua Messiah."
1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
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Sophia
Guest
The "Church Fathers" writings that have been preserved, have been preserved exclusively by the RRC and EOC. They would not have copied them and preserved them if the content was directly opposing their view of conditional salvation.
We know for a fact that many more writings were available, as some are referenced by the "Church Fathers", but these were not persevered, because they contradicted the works based doctrines of the political church of Constantine and Augustine.
We know for a fact that many more writings were available, as some are referenced by the "Church Fathers", but these were not persevered, because they contradicted the works based doctrines of the political church of Constantine and Augustine.
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Sophia
Guest
Just as the Pharisees used the Talmud to interpret the Word,
we still have many today who use the words and traditions of men to interpret the Word.
we still have many today who use the words and traditions of men to interpret the Word.
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yogosans14
Guest
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Sophia
Guest
That's because the others are parts of the Body. They have different functions, but agree in Christ.
How often do you hear a Baptist call a Lutheran a heretic? It doesn't happen. They agree on the core, and the Head, and then operate under the same Head, with different focus. The hand does not need to do the same thing as the foot.
Also... the RCC is a very divided and contradictory establishment.
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yogosans14
Guest
They don't necessarily call them a heretic but they do argue over theology
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Sophia
Guest
And Catholics don't disagree on theology?
Casting even that aside, there is unity even among the debates. There are wolves who come in, and spread heresy and hatred, but the Believers stand firm and hand in hand, even when they disagree about certain little things.
Usually the disagreements come down to traditions. The Bible tells us to not trust traditions anyway.
Your Barnabas citation did not answer to a word search. Please cite Chapter and Section
Re: Hermas 2,9
Editor's Introductory Note
[ A.D. 160.] The fragment known as the "Muratorian Canon" is the historic ground for the date I give to this author. I desired to prefix The Shepherd to the writings of Irenaeus, but the limits of the volume would not permit. The Shepherd attracted my attention, even in early youth, as a specimen of primitive romance; but of course it disappointed me, and excited repugnance. As to its form, it is even now distasteful. But more and more, as I have studied it, and cleared up the difficulties which surround it, and the questions it has started, it has become to me a most interesting and suggestive relic of the primitive age. Dr. Bunsen calls it "a good but dull novel," and reminds us of a saying of Niebuhr (Bunsen's master), that "he pitied the Athenian Christians for being obliged to hear it read in their assemblies." A very natural, but a truly superficial, thought, as I trust I shall be able to show.
At first sight, Hermas might seem to have little in common with Irenaeus; and, on many accounts, it would be preferable to pair him with Barnabas. But I feel sure that chronology forbids, and that the age of Irenaeus, and of the martyrs of Lyons and Vienne, is the period which called for this work, and which accounts for its popularity and its diffusion among the churches. Its pacific spirit in dealing with a rising heresy, which at first was a puzzle to the Latins, which Pius was disposed to meet by this gentle antidote, with which Eleutherus, in the spirit of a pacificator, tampered to his own hurt, and by which Victor was temporarily compromised, met precisely what the case see-red to demand in the judgment of Western Christians. They could not foresee the results of Montanism: it was not yet a defined heresy. And even the wise prudence of Irenaeus shows anxiety not too hastily to denounce it; "seeing," as Eusebius affirms, "there were many other wonderful powers of divine grace yet exhibited, even at that time, in different churches."
Bunsen pronounces magisterially on the Muratorian fragment as an ill-translated excerpt from Hegesippus, written about A.D. 165. This date may be inaccurate, but the evidence is that of a contemporary on which we may rely. "Very recently," he says, "in our own times, in the city of Rome, Hermas compiled The Shepherd; his brother, Bishop Pius, then sitting in the cathedra of the Roman Church." With the period thus assigned, the internal evidence agrees. It accounts for the anti-Montanism of the whole allegory, and not less for the choice of this noncontroversial form of antidote. Montanism is not named; but it is opposed by a reminder of better "prophesyings," and by setting the pure spirit of the apostolic age over against the frenzied and pharisaical pretensions of the fanatics. The pacific policy at first adopted by the Roman bishops, dictated, no doubt, this effort of Hermas to produce such a refutation as his brother might commend to the churches.
(from Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 2, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
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