Early church fathers believed we can lose salvation?

[Mitspa]

Mitspa,

We are not speaking about obedience. We are speaking about the revelation God gave to man. He did not give us a Bible. He gave us His revelation via the Apostles. They are the only men that gave us the revelation God gave to them.
You are the man that depends on man, namely you to figure out what the Bible means. One wonders what Paul and the others did during the first 100 years when all of what became the Canon did not exist. As per bible, that did not exist until the end of the 4th century. Your understanding of how you got the Bible and what it actually represents and means is non existent.

Where did I ever say I put my trust in men. The only men were the Apostles. For the rest it all is the result of Christ as Head of His Church and the Holy Spirit guarding both the Body and His revelation as He gave it. Man has never had any authority over God's revelation. That is your whole foundation of understanding. Man has the authority to interpret a text and can develop whatever ideas he thinks he can from just a text.

scripture was derived from a much larger body of revelation which, of course, including the meaning. Did you really think God just gave us a book and told us to read it and make of it what we will, each man for himself?

Again you seem to act as if you have knowledge of godliness based on the scriptures and then reject the authority of the scriptures based on the knowledge gained by the scriptures. Do you accept the cannon as the received Word of God, or do you put some pope above Gods word?

We wont even look into the character of this group of men you seem to be claiming to represent God and are above His Word!

Lets just say you wouldn't want to leave your kids alone with any of these fellows.

 

[thecreationtutor]

Mitspa,

We are not speaking about obedience. We are speaking about the revelation God gave to man. He did not give us a Bible. He gave us His revelation via the Apostles. They are the only men that gave us the revelation God gave to them.
You are the man that depends on man, namely you to figure out what the Bible means. One wonders what Paul and the others did during the first 100 years when all of what became the Canon did not exist. As per bible, that did not exist until the end of the 4th century. Your understanding of how you got the Bible and what it actually represents and means is non existent.

Where did I ever say I put my trust in men. The only men were the Apostles. For the rest it all is the result of Christ as Head of His Church and the Holy Spirit guarding both the Body and His revelation as He gave it. Man has never had any authority over God's revelation. That is your whole foundation of understanding. Man has the authority to interpret a text and can develop whatever ideas he thinks he can from just a text.

scripture was derived from a much larger body of revelation which, of course, including the meaning. Did you really think God just gave us a book and told us to read it and make of it what we will, each man for himself?

Do you really think God put another preisthood in order, after Jesus, died and rose again to become our Mediator - Acts 4:12? This is just blind, willful disobedience, repent and believe the Gospel, while you still have hope

 

[Cassian]

Mitspa,

Again you seem to act as if you have knowledge of godliness based on the scriptures and then reject the authority of the scriptures based on the knowledge gained by the scriptures. Do you accept the cannon as the received Word of God, or do you put some pope above Gods word?

Scripture has no inherent authority. There are ONLY two authorities possible. It is Christ/Holy Spirit,/God or man. You believe man has authority over a text called scripture.
I certainly do receive the Canon as part of the Word of God. It was the Church through the guidance of the Holy Spirit that brought forth the Canon.
The Church that Christ established has no Pope. Christ is the Head of His Church, enlivened by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Cassian]

Do you really think God put another preisthood in order, after Jesus, died and rose again to become our Mediator - Acts 4:12? This is just blind, willful disobedience, repent and believe the Gospel, while you still have hope

Other than the Truth, the full Gospel to which I hold, what Gospel do you recommend, yours, some other sola scripturists?

 

[Jeff_56]

deviant authors have said : "Scripture has no inherent authority."


even hasatan knows that Torah/ Scripture/ Yahweh's Word has more authority than anything else in heaven or on earth pratically ---

Yahweh even says I (Yahweh) HONOR MY WORD (SCRIPTURE) even MORE than MY OWN NAME.

so,
anyone who , like havah (eve) did in the garden, listens to the father of lies and discounts or disbelieves GOD'S WORD,

remains (until if ever they get to repent and recover) dead in their sin and trespasses.

 

[Cassian]

deviant authors have said : "Scripture has no inherent authority."


even hasatan knows that Torah/ Scripture/ Yahweh's Word has more authority than anything else in heaven or on earth pratically ---

Yahweh even says I (Yahweh) HONOR MY WORD (SCRIPTURE) even MORE than MY OWN NAME.

so,
anyone who , like havah (eve) did in the garden, listens to the father of lies and discounts or disbelieves GOD'S WORD,

remains (until if ever they get to repent and recover) dead in their sin and trespasses.

Can you point out where ONLY scripture is God's Word?

If scripture has inherent authority why do men disregard that authority? Why do men need to impose their best guess as to what it might mean? Do you understand from which scripture is derived?

 

[Jeff_56]

.....
If scripture has inherent authority why do men disregard that authority? Why do men need to impose their best guess as to what it might mean? .....

men are stupid, blind, pernicious, naked, decrepit, insipid, and dead in their sins and trespasses, ruled by

the prince of the power of the world.

scripture stands on it's own as God's Word. no one interprets it or guesses its meaning - those who pretend

to are all deceivers. Yahweh reveals the truth as He pleases, to all His children. no guesswork, ever.

men who use it (or try to) to rule over others or for any kind of power or gain are children of the devil
and
not children of God. this includes the entire roman catholic hierarchy , and many other churches and groups.

others outside the ekklesia, cannot get 'membership' in the 'inside' ekklesia/ body of Christ through study or money or effort or struggling or any human endeavor,

and cannot grasp the truth nor see the kingdom of heaven unless born from above by Yahweh's Will.

the early church fathers (sick) have been used by hasatan to deceive the whole world,

if any of them were really belonging to Yahweh or not, Yahweh knows, but some did not ever.

remember later, if the truth becomes known, (only Yahweh can accomplish this for you),

that the kingdom of this world is diametrically opposed to the kingdom of Yahweh (heaven),

and the roman authority(rcc) has NEVER been a part of the body of Christ.

 

[Cassian]

men are stupid, blind, pernicious, naked, decrepit, insipid, and dead in their sins and trespasses, ruled by

the prince of the power of the world.

scripture stands on it's own as God's Word. no one interprets it or guesses its meaning - those who pretend

to are all deceivers. Yahweh reveals the truth as He pleases, to all His children. no guesswork, ever.

men who use it (or try to) to rule over others or for any kind of power or gain are children of the devil
and
not children of God. this includes the entire roman catholic hierarchy , and many other churches and groups.

others outside the ekklesia, cannot get 'membership' in the 'inside' ekklesia/ body of Christ through study or money or effort or struggling or any human endeavor,

and cannot grasp the truth nor see the kingdom of heaven unless born from above by Yahweh's Will.

the early church fathers (sick) have been used by hasatan to deceive the whole world,

if any of them were really belonging to Yahweh or not, Yahweh knows, but some did not ever.

remember later, if the truth becomes known, (only Yahweh can accomplish this for you),

that the kingdom of this world is diametrically opposed to the kingdom of Yahweh (heaven),

and the roman authority(rcc) has NEVER been a part of the body of Christ.

Nice philosophical statement with some false facts, but the question is, who of all the men that have developed a gospel would be the Truth? Is it Luther, Calvin, Zwingli some modern ones, Fox, Hubbard, maybe you, etc. Where do you fit in. Do you have the Truth? Can you demonstrate that what you received is actually of the Holy Spirit? Can you demonstrate why a person you think teaches a false gospel is false?

 

[didymos]

....One of the reasons I'm considering becoming catholic Is the early church fathers literally disagree with every Protestant doctrine!go ahead and call me a troll idc I'm not

Cool, so you trust the churchfathers more than you do scripture hu?
Yeah, then you def should become a catholic. (Mark 8:7)

 

[MarcR]

Most of the ECF were overly concerned with establishing their own power and authority!

Where their opinions contradict Scripture, Scripture is Correct!

 

[MarcR]

Yeah just as your Evangelical Calvinist/Cessastion beliefs are the way, the truth and the life

Evangelical Calvinists push their brand of religion harder than anyone....Hold fast to their own interpretation of scripture that must come from the KJAV1611 and only English or it is wrong. Hold fast to the doctrine of works based salvation. Promote legalistic outward self righteousness, that promotes heart change on the inside. Preach and teach sin consciousness. Call faith righteousness a false doctrine. All of which forms false humility and is devoid of any form of Agape love...

Evangelical Calvinists are a modern day Pharisee movement if there ever was one....

Highwayman,

I don't know why you associate Viligant_Warrior with Calvanism; but I don't see it. The worst fallacy in Calvanism is limited atonement and election. From what I read, Viligant_Warrior does not only not adhere to this heresy; but actively opposes it!

 

[Cassian]

Most of the ECF were overly concerned with establishing their own power and authority!

Where their opinions contradict Scripture, Scripture is Correct!

Could you give some examples of Church Fathers establishing their own power and authority ?
Could you give an example of a false teaching and the scripture that says it is false?