Eastern Orthodoxy is not Talmud Pharisaism (Mishnaism).

[Scotth1960]

Again Scott...a lot of hot air and personal accusations but failure to address the scripture or doctrines.

You are failing badly here....tell EOC to send someone else.

Yes that is where we differ.

You trust MEN enough to risk NECROMANCY.

Why not just NOT risk it? It is an abomination to the Lord, and theres a good chance that you practice this abomination.

There is no command to pray to saints. Therefore we dont need to.

By doing so, and trying to ensnare others ito yor sect that practices this, is to bring people into danger.

All from a matter of trust of MEN.

(Deuteronomy 18:10) There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

(Deuteronomy 18:11) Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

(Deuteronomy 18:12) For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

You trust PROTESTANT MEN? WHY? Your belief speaks AGAINST ICONS. But then the very same people who DENY ICONS make ICONS OF LUTHER AND CALVIN, and not only ICONS, but STATUES OF LUTHER AND CALVIN. Perhaps you should know your Protestant religion (and all Protestant religions come from Luther, Calvin, and Wycliffe and Huss, or are made possible only because of these Reformers) they do not practice what they preach. They forbid icons, the followers of Luther and Calvin forbid icons, but they make icons and statues of Luther and of Calvin. Hypocrisy!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You trust PROTESTANT MEN? WHY? Your belief speaks AGAINST ICONS. But then the very same people who DENY ICONS make ICONS OF LUTHER AND CALVIN, and not only ICONS, but STATUES OF LUTHER AND CALVIN. Perhaps you should know your Protestant religion (and all Protestant religions come from Luther, Calvin, and Wycliffe and Huss, or are made possible only because of these Reformers) they do not practice what they preach. They forbid icons, the followers of Luther and Calvin forbid icons, but they make icons and statues of Luther and of Calvin. Hypocrisy!

Scott my friend.

This is a LIE propogated by your church.

Why don't you stop with the lies. WHy do you want to tell us we take our beliefs from men. when it is you who base your whole belief system on men who have not lived for over 1000 years.

We do not follow these men. I do not agree with Luther or calvin. I don't even know the other two.

 

[Strangelove]

You trust PROTESTANT MEN? WHY? Your belief speaks AGAINST ICONS. But then the very same people who DENY ICONS make ICONS OF LUTHER AND CALVIN, and not only ICONS, but STATUES OF LUTHER AND CALVIN. Perhaps you should know your Protestant religion (and all Protestant religions come from Luther, Calvin, and Wycliffe and Huss, or are made possible only because of these Reformers) they do not practice what they preach. They forbid icons, the followers of Luther and Calvin forbid icons, but they make icons and statues of Luther and of Calvin. Hypocrisy!

Yet again you fail to address the post and continue to associate me with people I know nothing about. I do not make icons of luther, calvin or any man...and have nothing to do with any statues.

The only thing that makes me a protest-ant is that I reject man made religious authority.

Please defend your cult and address the post. Taking pot shots at various denominations does not excuse your sects unbiblical doctrines.

Why do you talk to guys who may be dead?

You trust MEN enough to risk NECROMANCY.

Why not just NOT risk it? It is an abomination to the Lord, and theres a good chance that you practice this abomination.

There is no command to pray to saints. Therefore we dont need to.

By doing so, and trying to ensnare others ito yor sect that practices this, is to bring people into danger.

All from a matter of trust of MEN.

(Deuteronomy 18:10) There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

(Deuteronomy 18:11) Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

(Deuteronomy 18:12) For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

 

[Strangelove]

Please send a different EOC representative. This one is cooked.

 

[Scotth1960]

Yet again you fail to address the post and continue to associate me with people I know nothing about. I do not make icons of luther, calvin or any man...and have nothing to do with any statues.

The only thing that makes me a protest-ant is that I reject man made religious authority.

Please defend your cult and address the post. Taking pot shots at various denominations does not excuse your sects unbiblical doctrines.

Why do you talk to guys who may be dead?

Dear friend, Your presuppositions all come from Protestantism, not from Scripture.
Why do you trust the NT? According to your logic, it was written by '"dead men".
Why do you say "cult"? Look at what you do before you criticize others. "Strangelove". Nonsense!
Scott



You trust MEN enough to risk NECROMANCY.

Why not just NOT risk it? It is an abomination to the Lord, and theres a good chance that you practice this abomination.

There is no command to pray to saints. Therefore we dont need to.

By doing so, and trying to ensnare others ito yor sect that practices this, is to bring people into danger.

All from a matter of trust of MEN.

Friend, You trust your own ability to quote Deuteronomy 18 out of context to try and make it say something it doesn't say. Deuteronomy 18 doesn't say that the EOC is a cult. It is you that is doing all the accusing, not the Holy Spirit or the Scriptures! You are ignorant of Scripture!
Scott



(Deuteronomy 18:10) There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

(Deuteronomy 18:11) Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

(Deuteronomy 18:12) For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.[

 

[Scotth1960]

Yet again you fail to address the post and continue to associate me with people I know nothing about. I do not make icons of luther, calvin or any man...and have nothing to do with any statues.

The only thing that makes me a protest-ant is that I reject man made religious authority.

Please defend your cult and address the post. Taking pot shots at various denominations does not excuse your sects unbiblical doctrines.

Why do you talk to guys who may be dead?

You trust MEN enough to risk NECROMANCY.

Why not just NOT risk it? It is an abomination to the Lord, and theres a good chance that you practice this abomination.

There is no command to pray to saints. Therefore we dont need to.

By doing so, and trying to ensnare others ito yor sect that practices this, is to bring people into danger.

All from a matter of trust of MEN.

(Deuteronomy 18:10) There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

(Deuteronomy 18:11) Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

(Deuteronomy 18:12) For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Calling yourself strangelove does not make your doctrine biblical. You should go by your own name. Everybody else in the world does, or most normal people do.

 

[Scotth1960]

Scott my friend.

This is a LIE propogated by your church.

Why don't you stop with the lies. WHy do you want to tell us we take our beliefs from men. when it is you who base your whole belief system on men who have not lived for over 1000 years.

We do not follow these men. I do not agree with Luther or calvin. I don't even know the other two.

Read the Creed of 381 AD before you say the EOC is lying. What is wrong in the Creed of the Second Ecumenical Council? Do you even know what the Church's creed says? It is full of biblical truth. There is not one lie in any of it. You are not telling the truth by calling EO a lying propagandist.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Read the Creed of 381 AD before you say the EOC is lying. What is wrong in the Creed of the Second Ecumenical Council? Do you even know what the Church's creed says? It is full of biblical truth. There is not one lie in any of it. You are not telling the truth by calling EO a lying propagandist.

LOL, There you go again. You say you don't listen to men. But you base your whole eternity on a creed written by men hundreds of years after God closed the book on writing scripture.

see what i mean scott? I don't have to read that creed. All I have to do is test what the church teaches and see if it lines up with the word of God.

How can you keep saying you don't follow men when you continually tell us to read what MEN wrote.

 

[Scotth1960]

LOL, There you go again. You say you don't listen to men. But you base your whole eternity on a creed written by men hundreds of years after God closed the book on writing scripture.

see what i mean scott? I don't have to read that creed. All I have to do is test what the church teaches and see if it lines up with the word of God.

How can you keep saying you don't follow men when you continually tell us to read what MEN wrote.

So, you trust your own private interpretation of the Scriptures? Why?

 

[Strangelove]

So, you trust your own private interpretation of the Scriptures? Why?

Because I know I'm led by the Holy Spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So, you trust your own private interpretation of the Scriptures? Why?

So you trust mens private interpretation of scripture?? Why? Your willing to place your eternity in the hands of men because they CLAIM to be from God? Imagine all the people who based their eternity in the hands of the pharisees. Where they smart to listen to men and Not God?

Face it Scott. ALL men interpret scripture the way they want to. Do you think God is going to force men to interpret scripture the way he wants??

You want to interpret scripture and know you are probably doing it right. Make sure scripture does not contradict scripture.

If it does. it is not a correct interpretation.

That is why I can't go to an EO church. they contradict scripture in most all their doctrines.

 

[Scotth1960]

So you trust mens private interpretation of scripture?? Why? Your willing to place your eternity in the hands of men because they CLAIM to be from God? Imagine all the people who based their eternity in the hands of the pharisees. Where they smart to listen to men and Not God?

Face it Scott. ALL men interpret scripture the way they want to. Do you think God is going to force men to interpret scripture the way he wants??

You want to interpret scripture and know you are probably doing it right. Make sure scripture does not contradict scripture.

If it does. it is not a correct interpretation.

That is why I can't go to an EO church. they contradict scripture in most all their doctrines.

Then John 16:13 is meaningless and you don't trust what Jesus Christ is saying. Christ wasn't lying when He said He would lead His Church into all the truth (Matt. 16:18, 1 Tim. 3:15, Jude 3). He already did. At least seven times after the council of Acts 15. First in Acts 15. Then at Nicea in 325. At Constantinople in 381. And following, all the way up to 787 AD, and 879-880. You don't believe God inspires any true teachings after the end of the NT era. If that is so, then no one after the New Testament was closed correctly interpreted the NT, and there was no true church on earth. The true church is the NT alone, which no man rightly interprets. Only an interpretation which goes against what the Church wrote between 100 AD and 1517 is the truth. It was all restored in the Reformation, and there was no true church on earth till Luther came along. Or one of the Protestant sects after Luther. Tell, me, then, that there were no true Christians at all on earth after the NT was written? Isn't THAT what you are saying? You say these are all men, and therefore you can't follow them. But you DO follow some men, like it or not.
You're doubleminded about this! And you also have to believe there was a great apostasy, and Christianity wasn't restored in true teaching until your interpretation came along! You really aren't saying THAT, are you?

 

[Grandpa]

So, you trust your own private interpretation of the Scriptures? Why?

Your circular reasoning doesn't make any sense to anyone but you Scott. It is true to you because your church fathers have told you it is true. Luther is wrong because your church fathers said so. Your salvation is by works because your church fathers said so. The bible says whatever your church fathers say it says and everyone else is wrong, according to you.

It is true to me because Jesus and my bible says it is true. My salvation is by grace because Jesus and my bible say it is. Jesus is the ultimate authority and not men, even if you call those men "church fathers".

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then John 16:13 is meaningless and you don't trust what Jesus Christ is saying. Christ wasn't lying when He said He would lead His Church into all the truth (Matt. 16:18, 1 Tim. 3:15, Jude 3). He already did. At least seven times after the council of Acts 15. First in Acts 15. Then at Nicea in 325. At Constantinople in 381. And following, all the way up to 787 AD, and 879-880. You don't believe God inspires any true teachings after the end of the NT era. If that is so, then no one after the New Testament was closed correctly interpreted the NT, and there was no true church on earth. The true church is the NT alone, which no man rightly interprets. Only an interpretation which goes against what the Church wrote between 100 AD and 1517 is the truth. It was all restored in the Reformation, and there was no true church on earth till Luther came along. Or one of the Protestant sects after Luther. Tell, me, then, that there were no true Christians at all on earth after the NT was written? Isn't THAT what you are saying? You say these are all men, and therefore you can't follow them. But you DO follow some men, like it or not.
You're doubleminded about this! And you also have to believe there was a great apostasy, and Christianity wasn't restored in true teaching until your interpretation came along! You really aren't saying THAT, are you?

Its funny. Scripture teaches of a great apostasy. then a restoration. We saw that happen. You deny it??

Scripture also tells us to test each spirit (church) to see if it is from God.

I have tested the EO and found it lacking. It teaches a works based salvation that fools people into thinking they might get to heaven, when is reality they are heading the other way. Come out from under her. and seek God and his truth. and God will give it to you.

face it scott. for over 1000 years. anyone who believed other than orthodox/catholic was jailed, had their lives taken away from them. or killed. How would we know if there were believers like me at that time? I would hide. I would meet in secret, and ask God to being people to me who really wants to know truth.

Like I am sure many many people di during the iron fist of romes enforcing their false pagan cult on their people.

 

[Strangelove]

ts funny. Scripture teaches of a great apostasy. then a restoration.

Does the New Testament scriputre talk of a restoration?

 

[Rosewater]

If it's taught by the early church (100 - 200) it doesn't automatically make it true.

Wow, tough crowd.

 

[Scotth1960]

Your circular reasoning doesn't make any sense to anyone but you Scott. It is true to you because your church fathers have told you it is true. Luther is wrong because your church fathers said so. Your salvation is by works because your church fathers said so. The bible says whatever your church fathers say it says and everyone else is wrong, according to you.

It is true to me because Jesus and my bible says it is true. My salvation is by grace because Jesus and my bible say it is. Jesus is the ultimate authority and not men, even if you call those men "church fathers".

There is no such thing as "my bible". The Bible does not belong to you. It does not belong to me. It belongs to the Church (1 Tim. 3:15). Why would we trust men to tell us what the Bible means? The Bible was not written by mere men by by deified (sanctified) apostles of Jesus Christ. They knew Jesus Christ in the flesh. They witnessed His resurrection. Or met Him on the road to Damascus. Therefore, both they, and their successors, the bishops, have apostolic tradition (2 Thess. 2:15). Yes Jesus is the ultimately authority, through, with, and in the Church (1 Tim. 3:15, Jude 3, John 16:13, Matt. 16:18, 2 Thess. 2:15).
As for you, you say that everyone who disagrees with you and "your" (sic) Bible is wrong.
You say you do not follow men. You follow at least one man's opinion: your own!

 

[Scotth1960]

Its funny. Scripture teaches of a great apostasy. then a restoration. We saw that happen. You deny it??

Scripture also tells us to test each spirit (church) to see if it is from God.

I have tested the EO and found it lacking. It teaches a works based salvation that fools people into thinking they might get to heaven, when is reality they are heading the other way. Come out from under her. and seek God and his truth. and God will give it to you.

face it scott. for over 1000 years. anyone who believed other than orthodox/catholic was jailed, had their lives taken away from them. or killed. How would we know if there were believers like me at that time? I would hide. I would meet in secret, and ask God to being people to me who really wants to know truth.

Like I am sure many many people di during the iron fist of romes enforcing their false pagan cult on their people.

Luther and Calvin had people who disagreed with them killed. What is your point then?

 

[Scotth1960]

Its funny. Scripture teaches of a great apostasy. then a restoration. We saw that happen. You deny it??

Scripture also tells us to test each spirit (church) to see if it is from God.

I have tested the EO and found it lacking. It teaches a works based salvation that fools people into thinking they might get to heaven, when is reality they are heading the other way. Come out from under her. and seek God and his truth. and God will give it to you.

face it scott. for over 1000 years. anyone who believed other than orthodox/catholic was jailed, had their lives taken away from them. or killed. How would we know if there were believers like me at that time? I would hide. I would meet in secret, and ask God to being people to me who really wants to know truth.

Like I am sure many many people di during the iron fist of romes enforcing their false pagan cult on their people.

I have tested Protestantism in its various forms and found them all lacking. It all comes down to this: which are you going to trust: The NT, or Augustine of Hippo. The Protestants, most of them, got most of their ideas based on Augustine of Hippo.
Also, how do you know that all those people were killed? The Inquisition didn't start until AFTER the schism of 1054 AD. It was a Roman Catholic, not an Eastern Orthodox, phenomenon.
You are talking about ROME, NOT about Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem, and Alexandria and Moscow!

 

[Scotth1960]

Wow, tough crowd.

Yes, just because it was taught by the early Church DOES make it true! Or else, there was no Church on earth, and Matthew 16:18 is false! Are you questioning the words of our Saviour, Jesus? The Scriptures said there must be heresies. Who defines what is heresy? The one Church (Ephesians 4).
The Church is the foundation of truth. So, Eastern Orthodoxy, the authority in Christian matters, says that Roman Catholicism and all forms of Protestantism are false. If you have kept Christ's word, you will keep the Orthodox Church's word also (John 15:20).
And I say the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father alone (John 15:26). Amen.