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That's a point Esanta; however, let's not forget that Jihad is built into the very fabric of the false Islamic religious worldview.

But jihad is not built into the very fabric of Western political thought.

Muslims will always engage in Jihad until the end of this age. Even if everyone in the West migrated to another planet, Muslim sects will continue to engage in endless Jihad with each other attempting to genocidally destroy each other as they presently do.

Why? Because Jihad is a fundamental construct of Islam.

So not only can you not reasonably equate Islam with Western political thought as Jihad is not embedded in Western political thought but is in Islam, you cannot assert that Muslims will cease engaging in a behavior that is part of the very fabric of their false religious cult.

So while both sides may share some culpability for the present situation, Muslims will always engage in Jihad. It's in the very fabric of their false religious system.


Esanta said:
The author of the article fails to realize that he is attempting to use his rejection of any form of justification for the Jihadist's atrocities as justification for the atrocities of the West. The Jihadist is a 'pure nihilist' in his eyes, unjustifiable, as though that somehow exonerates us of any blame.

Both sides propagandise like this, incessantly, hoping these justifications will beguile those without an ounce of scrutiny, and sinisterly, the object of that hope is violent binary factionalism on a global scale. That end is itself genocide, which the author condemns. You see, the sanctimony that characterizes the tribal mindset is always the same - deceptive, duplicitous, deluded.
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AgeofKnowledge said:
I'm not aware of a single actual conservative, not to be confused with neo-conservative Republicans who are a different breed of liberal, that support any illegal alien immigration whatsoever and the diseases, crime, and social chaos it brings into the U.S..
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I don't know, dude. What you said earlier about undocumented immigrants causing death and sickness and crime and everything sounded a lot like neocon fervor to me. Some of those people actually do want to make a better life for themselves here. If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it's probably a neoconservative.

So, I guess you think the establishment and tradition of America is dead?
 
AgeofKnowledge said:
That's a point Esanta; however, let's not forget that Jihad is built into the very fabric of the false Islamic religious worldview.

But jihad is not built into the very fabric of Western political thought.

Muslims will always engage in Jihad until the end of this age. Even if everyone in the West migrated to another planet, Muslim sects will continue to engage in endless Jihad with each other attempting to genocidally destroy each other as they presently do.

Why? Because Jihad is a fundamental construct of Islam.

So not only can you not reasonably equate Islam with Western political thought as Jihad is not embedded in Western political thought but is in Islam, you cannot assert that Muslims will cease engaging in a behavior that is part of the very fabric of their false religious cult.

So while both sides may share some culpability for the present situation, Muslims will always engage in Jihad. It's in the very fabric of their false religious system.
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Okay, fair enough, yes, violent 'Jihad' is, in this present day and age, a component of particular Muslim thought, but only for some Muslims - while others view Jihad as a personal struggle against sinful desire - and our engagement in what you might call 'anti-terrorism' can be deceptively painted by those violent Jihadists as a war on all Muslim people, much like the Jihad can be painted as a war on all Westerners. So you see, we should be careful about generalizing like that, because it is deceptive.

Let me quote Osama Bin Laden, to show you just how both sides say strikingly similar things.

''Peace be upon any who should follow this guidance: People of America, this talk of mine is for you and concerns the ideal way to prevent another Manhattan, and deals with the war and its causes and results. Before I begin, I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom.

If so (as Bush says), then let him explain to us why we don't strike for example - Sweden? We know that freedom-haters don't possess defiant spirits like those of the 19 - may Allah have mercy on them. No, we fight because we are free men who don't sleep under oppression. We want to restore freedom to our nation. Just as you lay waste to our nation, so shall we lay waste to yours.

No one except a dumb thief plays with the security of others and then makes himself believe he will be secure. Whereas thinking people, when disaster strikes, make it their priority to look for its causes, in order to prevent it happening again. But I am amazed at you. Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there, cause for a repeat of what occurred.

So I shall talk to you about the story behind those events and shall tell you truthfully about the moments in which the decision was taken, for you to consider. I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.

The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced. I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy. The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn't respond.

In those difficult moments many hard-to-describe ideas bubbled in my soul, but in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny, and gave birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors. And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they may taste some of what we tasted, so that they may be deterred from killing our women and children.

That day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy. Destruction is called freedom and democracy, while resistance is called terrorism and intolerance.''


Now, tell me you don't see any parallels between what Osama Bin Laden says - 'we must protect our people, we are fighting oppression, we are counter-striking, not instigating' - and what Western politicians and governments say. And I believe both may think that's what they're doing, but when we have two sides, with generations of children growing up indoctrinated to understand who is 'the enemy' and who is 'right' and who is 'wrong', we have nothing but a recipe for perpetual war, AgeOfKnowledge.

Osama Bin Laden was definitely a man bent on hurting the West after Lebanon, but he also genuinely seems to believe that he was justified to repay America for what happened to his friends and family, much like many Westerners feel justified to repay 9/11 and other attacks. Before 1982, Bin Laden was a builder, a well-respected member of a British construction firm who headed up operations in his country, well liked by his friends and admired by the citizens.

Of course, none of this is justification at all, no more than 'our' actions - butchering hundreds of thousands - can be justified. I cannot rightly use the argument 'they mean to kill', or 'they are killers of innocents', or 'killing innocents is part of their code', to condone 'our' actions when killing innocents doesn't seem to be a problem for 'us' either.

Don't you see?
 
What I said about illegal immigration comes from first hand observation and experience and is fully supported by the statistics.

Unlike you, I was born and raised in Los Angeles, CA. I know exactly what illegal immigration is, what it brings, and what it displaces.

Just because you are clueless and prefer a warm fuzzy pink cloud fantasy in your head to the raw reality on the street doesn't mean that everyone else is.

I wish I could transport you into one of the many neighborhoods I've lived in that went from nice places to live to gangland and see how you handle the daily assaults, robberies, drug dealing, murders, prostitution, etc... and how you deal with the street gangs, the dropouts, the drug addicts, etc... while having to pay high taxes to support THAT.

It's easy to sit in your comfortable suburb sans-ghetto chopper overhead and talk about what you no nothing about. Listen friend, I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

Strike two is your insistence that I have to be a neo-con to be against illegal immigration. LOL! Ronald Reagan signed the last amnesty and LOTS of neo-cons are FOR more immigration. So it doesn't walk like a duck and sound like a duck. You're just so ignorant that you don't know what a duck sounds like. That's your real problem: you are ignorant.

Here, smarten up: Home | Federation for American Immigration Reform



AntonHolden said:
I don't know, dude. What you said earlier about undocumented immigrants causing death and sickness and crime and everything sounded a lot like neocon fervor to me. Some of those people actually do want to make a better life for themselves here. If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it's probably a neoconservative.

So, I guess you think the establishment and tradition of America is dead?
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I see more than you know, which is why you should listen more.

Muslims weren't peace lovers before Western aggression "made" them violent as your false narrative asserts. They were a very violent cult that murdered and enslaved human beings enmasse while Muhammad still walked the earth. Hindus didn't incite Muslims to invade them and murder 70 million Hindus. Africans didn't incite Muslims to invade Africa and take 150 million slaves and castrate tens of millions. The West didn't incite Muslims to invade Europe in 711 and start enslaving Westerners and beheading them. They did it because doing so is inherent to and embedded in their false religious epistemology.

And you've completely ignored the Soviet Union propaganda campaign to turn the Muslim Middle East against Israel and America. Read: http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/103576/the-cold-wars-arab-spring


Esanta said:
Don't you see?
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Reading through this thread, one sees alot has been said about what should or shouldnt be done.

Ebola is a scary filo virus, and all have a right to be concerned.

But the truth is, if this virus is going to become a world wide pandemic, it will do so, as we live in a time where many trials not seen before are happening.

My hope is that this terrible illness will soon be stopped, and it will dissappear as quickly, in the same way it has mysteriously appeared and dissapeared, through out history.

For our trust is to be, not in what we or others think we have controll over in the world, but always in God and His care and protection.
Then do what we can do, to always walk in the faith, hope and love we are called to in Jesus, forgiving each other as we have been forgiven in Jesus.

May we all pray this terrible illness is soon stopped, and pray also for those who have lost the ones they love.

God bless
pickles
 
AgeofKnowledge said:
I see more than you know, which is why you should listen more.

Muslims weren't peace lovers before Western aggression "made" them violent as your false narrative asserts. They were a very violent cult that murdered and enslaved human beings enmasse while Muhammad still walked the earth. Hindus didn't incite Muslims to invade them and murder 70 million Hindus. Africans didn't incite Muslims to invade Africa and take 150 million slaves and castrate tens of millions. The West didn't incite Muslims to invade Europe in 711 and start enslaving Westerners and beheading them. They did it because doing so is inherent to and embedded in their false religious epistemology.

And you've completely ignored the Soviet Union propaganda campaign to turn the Muslim Middle East against Israel and America. Read: http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/103576/the-cold-wars-arab-spring
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I never pinned blame for 'starting it' anywhere, because I think that attitude is childish. I am talking about the perpetuation of all of this, something only a minority of Muslims are part of, and only a minority of Westerners agree with.
 
If we don't practice scriptural principles such as quarantining infected people then it will become a pandemic and kill a whole lot more people.

Throwing your hands up in the air and saying there's nothing we can do is not Christ-like nor scriptural. There's PLENTY we CAN do.

Let's not forget the lesson learned from the devastating black plague of the 14th century that claimed millions of lives which was not broken until the church fathers in Vienna began encouraging the public to start following the guidelines as set forth in the Bible. The promising results in Vienna compelled other cities to follow suit, and the dreaded plague was finally eradicated.

pickles said:
Reading through this thread, one sees alot has been said about what should or shouldnt be done.

Ebola is a scary filo virus, and all have a right to be concerned.

But the truth is, if this virus is going to become a world wide pandemic, it will do so, as we live in a time where many trials not seen before are happening.

My hope is that this terrible illness will soon be stopped, and it will dissappear as quickly, in the same way it has mysteriously appeared and dissapeared, through out history.

For our trust is to be, not in what we or others think we have controll over in the world, but always in God and His care and protection.
Then do what we can do, to always walk in the faith, hope and love we are called to in Jesus, forgiving each other as we have been forgiven in Jesus.

May we all pray this terrible illness is soon stopped, and pray also for those who have lost the ones they love.

God bless
pickles
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When your minority is high double digits from a population of 1.6 billion people with the remainder being mostly ignorant and nominal then you have a serious problem. There simply is no way to minimize or justify it.

Take this course: Center For The Study Of Political Islam



Esanta said:
I never pinned blame for 'starting it' anywhere, because I think that attitude is childish. I am talking about the perpetuation of all of this, something only a minority of Muslims are part of, and only a minority of Westerners agree with.
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Narrow your path you two.

2-paths.jpg
 
Elizabeth619 said:
One of the Americans is Kent Brantly. He is a missionary who has devoted his life to helping the sick physically and spiritually. Maybe instead of worrying about an outbreak we should pray for these sick people that they survive this. I don't know anything about the other patient, but Kent is only 33 has a wife and two very young children. These kids could easily lose their father and some people are treating this man like he is an animal. His family is worried. They're hurting, and they're scared. Kent is also my youth ministers cousin, and I am pretty sure if they saw some of the comments here by other Christians they'd be upset. Please pray for these people. They need it.
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Amen to this. Kent is a close friend of one of my close friends from church. They are heartbroken at responses that are so lacking in love. True, there are many things to be considered, especially with a disease so dangerous, but even logical debates like this should be covered in love and compassion. Brantly and his family need prayer.
 
I don't mind tackling the hard problems. It has to be done or more people die. So while prayers for all the victims and their families are in order: in no way, shape, or form do those prayers negate the need for quarantine and strict precaution (both of which are wholly scriptural) to protect uninfected people.

Protecting the uninfected from infection is loving. Praying for the infected is loving. Negligence which results in people becoming infected is what's unloving.

So route your emotions properly into the appropriate channels of prayer, encouragement, support, etc... which benefit people but don't let them become a liability which causes more people to become sick and die.
 
AgeofKnowledge said:
If we don't practice scriptural principles such as quarantining infected people then it will become a pandemic and kill a whole lot more people.

Throwing your hands up in the air and saying there's nothing we can do is not Christ-like nor scriptural. There's PLENTY we CAN do.

Let's not forget the lesson learned from the devastating black plague of the 14th century that claimed millions of lives which was not broken until the church fathers in Vienna began encouraging the public to start following the guidelines as set forth in the Bible. The promising results in Vienna compelled other cities to follow suit, and the dreaded plague was finally eradicated.
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Oh ageofknowladge,(:)a loving smile here) you know better than to put words into my post. :):):)
I was not speaking against doing what is needed, as you are correct, there is scripture that speaks to the percautions of disease.
I was speaking both to, not letting fear guide our actions, and that if this is to be a pandemic, our trust is in God.
I spend every day cleaning and taking wise percautions to prevent illness in my home, for to do so is wise. :)
All was simply speaking to the storms that will come our way, and if this disease is to be such a storm, what will matter is our faith and trust in God.
Like I spoke to before this post, psalm 91 is close to my heart these days.
Maby it is just over concern with all happening these days, for we have seen many disasters as never before.
But, maby it is also simply in Jesus, a knowladge that this disease might not be stopped.
I do not know.... , I do know though that it is faith we are called to in Jesus, trusting all to God Our Father.

Yes, I agree we do take percautions.
But first and most important is not to let fear rule our choices, then, in all we do, we do so by faith in Jesus, resting all our trust in God Our Father.


in Jesus, God bless:)
pickles
 
and the love of christ just shines through so many of these postings ........ (please understand, this is SARCASM)
 
How colossally stupid do you have to be to break into an Ebola quarantine center and clinic and loot it:

Liberia: Ebola Fears Rise as Clinic Is Looted - ABC News

What is it with these people? Every time they don't like something they riot and loot. Well... soon they will discover that what they stole this time wasn't actually "free."

"Liberian officials fear Ebola could soon spread through the capital's largest slum after residents raided a quarantine center for suspected patients and took items including bloody sheets and mattresses.
The violence in the West Point slum occurred late Saturday and was led by residents angry that patients were brought to the holding center from other parts of Monrovia, Tolbert Nyenswah, assistant health minister, said Sunday.

Up to 30 patients were staying at the center and many of them fled at the time of the raid, said Nyenswah. Once they are located they will be transferred to the Ebola center at Monrovia's largest hospital, he said.

West Point residents went on a "looting spree," stealing items from the clinic that were likely infected, said a senior police official, who insisted on anonymity because he was not authorized to brief the press.

The residents took medical equipment and mattresses and sheets that had bloodstains, he said. Ebola is spread through bodily fluids including blood, vomit, feces and sweat.

'All between the houses you could see people fleeing with items looted from the patients,' the official said, adding that he now feared 'the whole of West Point will be infected.'

Some of the looted items were visibly stained with blood, vomit and excrement, said Richard Kieh, who lives in the area.

The incident creates a new challenge for Liberian health officials who were already struggling to contain the outbreak."
 
Much of Africa's been a hotbed for this kind of thing; looting, riots, utter lawlessness, for decades. There is such a poor standard for education, such high poverty, such low incomes, much starvation, lack of clean water, shoddy governments, corrupt police, indiscriminate murder, high crime rates, such violent religious extremism and stark social inequality that the level of unrest is just extraordinary.

Obviously this Ebola theft comes with its own monumental problems and challenges, but I think there's a much deeper root to many of the things that go on in Africa that need addressing. Though this situation is unique, it belongs to a wider culture of lawlessness with its own causes.

Obviously this outbreak needs tackled appropriately, but I don't expect the lawlessness will be remedied if the root causes of the social issues in Africa are left unchanged.
 
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