Elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1 Peter 1:2
- Thread starter OIC1965
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Because you don’t have an adequate grasp of the systems you’re critiquing. This is clear because you said many Calvinists teach in Christ before saved. That is flat out untrue.
If you want to continue, pm me. This is not edifying for others that may be reading. I’m not going to do it anymore. If you want to continue, pm me or start a new thread
Thanks.
T is Total depravity. ( Agreed, Said Jacob Arm )
U is unconditional Election
( Jacob still made the mistake of placing ' election before conversion, like the Calvo, but with a twist . Conditional .
L is limited Atonement
I is irresistible grace
P is Perseverance of the saints.
Each one of those has a detailed doctrine behind it. T is taught that man is dead to the point to where he must be regenerated again
Why don’t you start your own thread on this?
Feel free to start a thread on tulip and I’ll discuss this with you there.
Btw, Arminius did not agree to any part of Tulip. He was not alive when it was formulated.
Arminian view of depravity is not the same as T in Tulip.
Start a thread on it and I’ll join in.
Will be away for a whoke
I'm going to be busy for a bit , prepping for bible study . Hence the pursuit on this topic as we are currently in Ephesians 1 . So this has been very useful . I see you as a brother and iron sharpens iron .
Meanwhile I'll recommend a booklet which really helped me . its Called ' the faith of Gods elect " By John Parkinson . Genuine recommendation ( Not in a patronising way ) Let me know what you think and we could base a thread off it .
Im not trying to be hard on you I used to have real misunderstandings on what the two sides taught. For example, I used to think everyone who believed in eternal security was a Calvinist.
Don’t look at scriptures through the lens of arm vs calv. Just let them speak in their own context.
I consider you a brother too. God bless.
Btw, if you can, send me an outline or summary of your study on Ephesians 1 if you want to. I would like to see how you exegete it. I will not comment on it, I just wouldn’t mind reading it.
Jacob was a student of Beza ( High calvinist)
Jacob Arminius
In this state, the free will of man towards the true good is not only wounded, maimed, infirm, bent, and weakened; but it is also imprisoned, destroyed, and lost. And its powers are not only debilitated and useless unless they be assisted by grace, but it has no powers whatever except such as are excited by Divine grace. For Christ has said, “Without me ye can do nothing.” St. Augustine, after having diligently meditated upon each word in this passage, speaks thus: “Christ does not say, without me ye can do but Little; neither does He say, without me ye can do any Arduous Thing, nor without me ye can do it with difficulty. But he says, without me ye can do Nothing! Nor does he say, without me ye cannot complete any thing; but without me ye can do Nothing.”
Arminius, J., Complete Works of Arminius, Volume 1, Public Disputations of Arminius, Disputation 11 (On the Free Will of Man and its Powers)
I’ve actually been called a semi pelagian by some. False, of course.
SALVATION is not rescuing the perishing but the raising the dead
This is the spiritual death that all men inherited from Adam.
*Being born again is the first step in salvation.
*Unless one is born again they do not have the Holy Spirit and without the Spirit a person cannot rightly discern the scriptures; they are spiritually apprised. 1 Cor 2:14
*it is God who has CAUSED you to BE born again 1 Peter 1:3
REGENERATION
Deut. 30:6 the Lord will circumcise your heart that you may live (Rom 2:29 the Holy Spirit circumcises the heart)
1 John 5 born of God, born of the Spirit, begotton of God
Ez 11:19 God takes stone heart and give a heart of flesh
Titus 3:5 Saved by the washing of regeneration, and the renewing of the Holy Spirit
Regeneration and quickening mean the same thing in that what was dead is made alive
The word DEAD literally means a CORPSE......and that is very dead! Check your Strong's
Whatever magical powers you give that old corpse, it will never rise on its own.....it will just stink.
Quicken
KJV Ephesians 2:1-5
1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast” (Ephesians 2:8) The GRACE part is the unmerited favor (grace) that God causes you to be born again, so that whatever faith is given to you, you will believe the scriptures. (faith and belief are from the same root word in the Greek with same meaning)
Salvation, faith and every gift you have is from the Lord. Created with a purpose for God's good pleasure.
This is the spiritual death that all men inherited from Adam.
*Being born again is the first step in salvation.
*Unless one is born again they do not have the Holy Spirit and without the Spirit a person cannot rightly discern the scriptures; they are spiritually apprised. 1 Cor 2:14
*it is God who has CAUSED you to BE born again 1 Peter 1:3
REGENERATION
Deut. 30:6 the Lord will circumcise your heart that you may live (Rom 2:29 the Holy Spirit circumcises the heart)
1 John 5 born of God, born of the Spirit, begotton of God
Ez 11:19 God takes stone heart and give a heart of flesh
Titus 3:5 Saved by the washing of regeneration, and the renewing of the Holy Spirit
Regeneration and quickening mean the same thing in that what was dead is made alive
The word DEAD literally means a CORPSE......and that is very dead! Check your Strong's
Whatever magical powers you give that old corpse, it will never rise on its own.....it will just stink.
Quicken
KJV Ephesians 2:1-5
1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast” (Ephesians 2:8) The GRACE part is the unmerited favor (grace) that God causes you to be born again, so that whatever faith is given to you, you will believe the scriptures. (faith and belief are from the same root word in the Greek with same meaning)
Salvation, faith and every gift you have is from the Lord. Created with a purpose for God's good pleasure.
To be honest, I think the key words are free will towards the TRUE good. We can seek God, we can believe the gospel, we can call on the Lord, but those are responses to the Call, ( which goes out to all men and salvation is offered genuinely to all), yet how can we have a free will towards that which we do not know. We cannot know the true good apart from the knowledge of what is truly good, which comes from God.
The preaching of the cross is foolishness to us until it is revealed both by Word and Spirit.
In addition, I don’t think we really seek the true good until we at least receive light from God, because we do not know the True good, the true good being God. In other words, there is no true good apart from the truly good that comes from God
But there are things in this statement I am not in full agreement with.
It is almost worth the price of admission to watch one person ignorant of calvinism trying to teach another person ignorant of calvinism. We are all born arminians, it is grace that makes us calvinists / George Whitfield
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I
Must have missed the beginning of your discussion. Maybe you said something that keyed them? But I have seen nothing Calvinistic in anything you have said. I think they are just on a witch hunt and they have no one else to argue with them
Not here. Elsewhere. I’ve been called semipelagian for denying irresistable grace.
If you’re saying I’m ignorant Of Calvinism ,you’re wrong. Tell me, where I have misrepresented Calvinism
If you’re not talking about me, I apologize.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
We have been called many things. It’s crazy how people can not just sit and read
I agree with all of this, except that there is a conception that precedes the new birth, but it is God who conceived us. Born again of incorruptable seed.
If anyone wants to debate any part, name it. There is scripture to defend all of it.