Election teaches that salvation comes from the Lord.

[Foghorn]

Ephesians 1:3-13.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.


Paul makes it pretty clear in verse 4 that God chose. even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world,

He predestined His chosen, verse 5. he predestined us for adoption

He gave in verse 6. to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

He forgave verse 7. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses,

He lavished grace verses 7-8. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight

He made His will known in verse 9. making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ

He purposed verse 9. according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ

He included verse 13. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

He marked us and sealed us with the Holy Spirit. verse 13. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,


And what is of the utmost important is, that these are all done in Christ. Which is why we must be regenerated first and placed in Christ by God before we can believe or receive any of this.

 

[selahsays]

But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

- 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

 

[Nehemiah6]

He predestined His chosen, verse 5. he predestined us for adoption

Yes. And that is not the same as saying that He predestined some for salvation. But the title of your thread appears to say that. Adoption includes perfection and glorification as other verses show. But salvation is offered to all.

 

[John146]

Ephesians 1:3-13.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.


Paul makes it pretty clear in verse 4 that God chose. even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world,

He predestined His chosen, verse 5. he predestined us for adoption

He gave in verse 6. to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

He forgave verse 7. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses,

He lavished grace verses 7-8. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight

He made His will known in verse 9. making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ

He purposed verse 9. according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ

He included verse 13. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

He marked us and sealed us with the Holy Spirit. verse 13. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,


And what is of the utmost important is, that these are all done in Christ. Which is why we must be regenerated first and placed in Christ by God before we can believe or receive any of this.

Funny, the passage you chose does not contain the word "election".

 

[John146]

He predestined His chosen, verse 5. he predestined us for adoption

Allow the bible to define the adoption. See Romans 8:23. It is the future redemption of the body. It is something the believer is promised, predestined for the moment he believes.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 

[John146]

But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

- 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

Gentiles are chosen for God's salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief in the truth through the gospel. There is no other way to be saved. This was God's plan from the beginning.

 

[p_rehbein]

Is this just another attempt to attack "free will?"

(goodness)

Methinks this subject has been dealt with at least once or twice before.

IMO, people can believe what they want, makes no never mind to me. I do know that on that day they stand at the Judgement Seat to give an account for all they ever thought, said, did, and especially taught others, they will learn the TRUTH.

(hey! what's up with all that weeping and gnashing?)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Is this just another attempt to attack "free will?"

(goodness)

Methinks this subject has been dealt with at least once or twice before.

IMO, people can believe what they want, makes no never mind to me. I do know that on that day they stand at the Judgement Seat to give an account for all they ever thought, said, did, and especially taught others, they will learn the TRUTH.

(hey! what's up with all that weeping and gnashing?)

“Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear;

but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Imagine if Gods really just blaming them for it but it was just his own doing and will …..that’s not God

 

[Aaron56]

I wonder: what's the end-game for this? I mean, how does it change one's behavior?

If God made us saved - then what?
If we chose to be saved - then what?

How does either reality affect the normal behavior of the believer?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Yes. And that is not the same as saying that He predestined some for salvation. But the title of your thread appears to say that. Adoption includes perfection and glorification as other verses show. But salvation is offered to all.

That is the important point! One that full Calvinists deny.

 

[Slimsumo]

I wonder: what's the end-game for this? I mean, how does it change one's behavior?

If God made us saved - then what?
If we chose to be saved - then what?

How does either reality affect the normal behavior of the believer?

It really doesn't at all. This is mostly a philosophical debate and there is very little fruit in debating it.

Of course both sides try to make this into something important by saying things like

"Well is God sovereign or not?? If you choose to be saved you are saving yourself, its ALL GOD!!"
"God's character is at stake, if we don't have free will all sin is God's fault OOO!!"

This type of rhetoric will be coming out and in day to day life, all of this really is meaningless. I agree with you 100%

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I wonder: what's the end-game for this? I mean, how does it change one's behavior?

If God made us saved - then what?
If we chose to be saved - then what?

How does either reality affect the normal behavior of the believer?

If a person thinks there’s no choice to make ,they’ll never make a choice when they have the option.

If a person knows it’s about choosing God over the world they’ll make the good choice and then move on past that part.

Gods Will is going to come to pass everything he said would be will be o think we’re discussing more if mankind has a part in his Will coming to pass whether good or evil

Does God impose his Will upon man ? Or does he tell him the good that is life and evil that is death and Bid man to believe him and live ?

 

[Blade]

Ephesians 1:3-13.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.


Paul makes it pretty clear in verse 4 that God chose. even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world,

He predestined His chosen, verse 5. he predestined us for adoption

He gave in verse 6. to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

He forgave verse 7. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses,

He lavished grace verses 7-8. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight

He made His will known in verse 9. making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ

He purposed verse 9. according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ

He included verse 13. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

He marked us and sealed us with the Holy Spirit. verse 13. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,


And what is of the utmost important is, that these are all done in Christ. Which is why we must be regenerated first and placed in Christ by God before we can believe or receive any of this.

For me in searching studying again as I always do with a post. Did you know there is not just one view when it comes to Eph 1 3-13 predestined, election. I don't know why some only post their personal view. So if were just sticking to yours well I leave you in peace.

 

[TMS]

God choose everyone when He gave Jesus.
Everyone can be saved
Justification by grace and total surrender of self show the fact that we have not ability to save ourselves but salvation comes as a gift by faith.

We do need to do something....
On our part we need to ask and accept the salvation given.

Like a paralytic we can not walk, but when Jesus said take up thy bed and walk we need to believe, exercise faith.

Everyone is given the gift of salvation
Not just the elect.

1Ti 2:3-6
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

ALL, a ramson for ALL, have ALL saved

 

[Pilgrimshope]

God choose everyone when He gave Jesus.
Everyone can be saved
Justification by grace and total surrender of self show the fact that we have not ability to save ourselves but salvation comes as a gift by faith.

We do need to do something....
On our part we need to ask and accept the salvation given.

Like a paralytic we can not walk, but when Jesus said take up thy bed and walk we need to believe, exercise faith.

Everyone is given the gift of salvation
Not just the elect.

1Ti 2:3-6
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

ALL, a ramson for ALL, have ALL saved

Amen

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

For me in searching studying again as I always do with a post. Did you know there is not just one view when it comes to Eph 1 3-13 predestined, election. I don't know why some only post their personal view. So if were just sticking to yours well I leave you in peace.

“and lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭3:17‬ ‭

“And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭9:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:20-22, 24‬ ‭

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:3-7‬ ‭

look in the Bible for the term “in him “ or “in his name” or “in Christ “

christ is the one elect of God the promised hier the promised king eternal who was known chosen and elect before the world began

christians are those who are his body which was given for them who believe his body without sin given for sinners who repent and believe the gospel and are revealed as those in him the elect of God Jesus Christ our lord who is God manifest in the flesh of a man

 

[Foghorn]

For me in searching studying again as I always do with a post. Did you know there is not just one view when it comes to Eph 1 3-13 predestined, election. I don't know why some only post their personal view. So if were just sticking to yours well I leave you in peace.

Yes, and I suspect there are probably more views than you are aware of.
And of course you are welcome to share your view, after all it is a public forum. But if you are so sensitive to certain subjects maybe you shouldn’t. But that’s your choice. 🙂

 

[Foghorn]

God choose everyone when He gave Jesus.
Everyone can be saved
Justification by grace and total surrender of self show the fact that we have not ability to save ourselves but salvation comes as a gift by faith.

We do need to do something....
On our part we need to ask and accept the salvation given.

Like a paralytic we can not walk, but when Jesus said take up thy bed and walk we need to believe, exercise faith.

Everyone is given the gift of salvation
Not just the elect.

1Ti 2:3-6
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

ALL, a ramson for ALL, have ALL saved

You seem to be preaching the opposite of the scriptures your posting. 🤔

 

[John146]

God choose everyone when He gave Jesus.
Everyone can be saved
Justification by grace and total surrender of self show the fact that we have not ability to save ourselves but salvation comes as a gift by faith.

We do need to do something....
On our part we need to ask and accept the salvation given.

Like a paralytic we can not walk, but when Jesus said take up thy bed and walk we need to believe, exercise faith.

Everyone is given the gift of salvation
Not just the elect.

1Ti 2:3-6
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

ALL, a ramson for ALL, have ALL saved

Calvinist view of scripture...

All = all of the elect
World = world of the elect
Whosoever = whosoever of the elect
Any = any of the elect

Of course, only when it's convenient.

 

[rogerg]

Yes. And that is not the same as saying that He predestined some for salvation. But the title of your thread appears to say that. Adoption includes perfection and glorification as other verses show. But salvation is offered to all.

Yes, that is exactly what it is saying. God was expounding upon the concept of election and that certain individuals - those chosen by Him - that they would become saved.
You stopped reading too soon. Salvation is not offered to all. Look at the "us" and "we" below. Those who become saints, by election, they, and they alone, become/became those saved.


[Eph 1:1, 3- 7 KJV]
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: ...
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;