Election teaches that salvation comes from the Lord.
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I agree we could but when John wrote this they did not know what these numbers meant.
If you were chosen to be a child of God before the foundation of the world, you could never be a child of wrath, without hope. God already knew you as one of his, so his wrath was never against you.
Look at Sodom being rained upon with fire and brimstone. It turns out that entire area is massive volcanoes. And many times when volcanoes erupt sulfur balls and fire and brimstone would be spewed out. Whose to say God did not use volcanoes to kill them because they were blind and lava would have burnt them alive and the fact there's multiple volcanoes it might as just turned them into dust.
Look at Revelation where it shows what we know is north of Israel and the prophecy that water and blood would cause such destruction. That area has roughly 75 volcanoes. Lava from 75 active volcanoes would look like blood and rising water like tsunami's would naturally occur with the combo. Whose to say that is not what God was saying but John only could write to his own understanding.
I think many things coming in prophecy can be explained now that could not be back then.
When Moses said life is in the blood. He didn't know that blood is trillions of cells and purifications that circulate throughout your body cleansing your organs like the liver and heart. He only knew that God said blood is life.
We definitely have advantage knowing many things that 2,000 years or in Daniel's day they were not aware of.
All my pegs are round. In fact, they are not only round but elect also.Cutting off the edges from the square peg to make it fit the round hole.
Sure. Maybe John thought it only meant a trillion.
Hebrews were well aware of large numbers. The descendants of Abraham were said to number as the stars and grains of sands.
and not in the ESV, NKJV, NLT, NIV, CSB, NASB20, NASB95, LSB, NET, RSV, ASVM, DBY, WEB, HNV,
The YLT states it this way. Not sure what it is saying
[Jhn 6:44 YLT] 44 no one is able to come unto me, if the Father who sent me may not draw him, and I will raise him up in the last day;
The BBE states it this way. Not sure of what it is saying.
[Jhn 6:44 BBE] 44 No man is able to come to me if the Father who sent me does not give him the desire to come: and I will take him up from the dead on the last day.
The AMP states it this way. Not sure of what it is saying.
[Jhn 6:44 AMP] 44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him [giving him the desire to come to Me]; and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.
It looks like the NIV... which is not always my first choice.
Do you disagree with the idea of God enabling us?
Guess it depends upon how enabling is understood. My understanding is that it implies there is a choice: that those enabled can chose to come to Christ or not, while the sense of the KJV (and other versions) is that God will bring to Christ all those whom He had chosen
for salvation, and they alone Christ will raise on the last day. So, I believe the latter interpretation to be the correct one.
The verse in KJV does not say you were given, but it was given.
We are back again at the idea of choice. You say you were not
forced but always kick against any choice being involved.
"it" was given? in verse 6:44 KJV? I don't find an "it" there.
this verse? I'm confused.
[Jhn 6:44 KJV] 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Sorry, I was at John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no
man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.