Correction(posted too soon) Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated. Neither had been born yet. How did God hate Esau?
Election, that most contentious doctrine.
- Thread starter Evmur
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The only reason that I am saved, you are saved, or anyone else is saved is Jesus Christ.
He said if I be lifted up...I will draw all men to me.
“And the Spirit and the bride say, ‘Come!’ And let him who hears say, ‘Come!’ And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely” ( Revelation 22:17 )
God is not a respecter of persons...so let's be careful...not try to make Him out to be one.
So by that, wouldn’t God also have a foreknowledge of others who will not be saved? In addition, does God hate some that he has created?
But, YOU are a Gentile that is GRAFTED INTO the Fold, not ELECTED INTO the Fold.
Once you accept the Invitation offered by Christ, and you are Grafted into the Fold, it is at that point you become the Elected!
And take what is said BEFORE THAT INTO ACCOUNT.
Esau, did not care what Blessing and Birthright meant, but Jacob did.
You cannot use a couple words and think everything up to that point does not matter.
That is Exactly how False Doctrines are created!
God hates Sin.
That's why he sent his Son. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jesus died to pay the penalty for sin for anyone who repents and puts their faith in Him.
If people aren't careful...then they might be found doing the devils job for him.
Instead of witnessing the good news of the Gospel they may be found sowing doubt, confusion, and hopelessness.
Instead of witnessing the good news of the Gospel they may be found sowing doubt, confusion, and hopelessness.
Just because one is Jewish, does not indicate they are part of the election of salvation. The Jews as an ethnic people who where chosen as the people whom the messiah would be revealed.
Paul is using a figurative analogy. Christ who came through Abraham the is the vine in which gentiles are grafted in. We are Abraham’s adopted children through the promise made to Abraham. Yes, God had a process in place of how and when the elected would become to be.
I know this not a popular theology in western Christianity. The seeker sensitive movement makes it that God loves everyone the same. And to an extent that is true, but some are objects of His wrath while others His grace/mercy.
Paul is using a figurative analogy. Christ who came through Abraham the is the vine in which gentiles are grafted in. We are Abraham’s adopted children through the promise made to Abraham. Yes, God had a process in place of how and when the elected would become to be.
I know this not a popular theology in western Christianity. The seeker sensitive movement makes it that God loves everyone the same. And to an extent that is true, but some are objects of His wrath while others His grace/mercy.
Right, but neither child had been born yet. Neither had committed any acts of evil. Why did God hate Esau before he was born?
The Issue that Bothers me, with this portion of Calvinism, is for THOSE who believe in such Garbage, they have Sinners all around them to be Witnesses to.
But instead, they are secretly judging them and thinking to themselves, that I don't need to waste my time witnessing because they were made for Hell anyways.
God put those Sinners so you will Witness.
Refusing so and judging them is probably why most Believers in False Doctrines barely make ends meet and barely survive life, let alone what Christ will say on Judgement Day.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
But instead, they are secretly judging them and thinking to themselves, that I don't need to waste my time witnessing because they were made for Hell anyways.
God put those Sinners so you will Witness.
Refusing so and judging them is probably why most Believers in False Doctrines barely make ends meet and barely survive life, let alone what Christ will say on Judgement Day.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
But God knew that Esau would sell his Birthright and he would not cherish what that Birthright meant towards being in line with God!
This isn’t a “Got you” question. Didn’t Jacob sin as well? I am just asking where you sit before I know where you stand.
Oddly enough, Jesus is confirming, these that Believe they are Christian following their Doctrines will end up in HELL!
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
And another thing...
It throws a stumbling block in the way. In order to be saved we have to believe, trust, and put our faith in the Lord.
As a sinner it's hard enough to believe that God would offer the gift of salvation through His Son to us knowing how unworthy we truly are. Then having some standing in the way preaching that he only chooses some to save and others to destroy without even giving them a chance... takes it to a whole other level. Knowingly or not, they are sewing doubt and confusion and casting a stumbling block in others way.