Elihu, Saint or Satan?

[Davidstarr]

God bless you!

Great question. These are perfect places in this story, specifically Elihu's speech, where we should pause and really analyze his character. Why wold Elihu be angry at Job for persistently declaring his innocence in this matter? It appears he deeply desires Job to be guilty and to make a confession of wrong. But as any reader knows from the beginning, Job is not guilty. He has not committed any sin to incur his suffering.

Also, Elihu is angry at Job's 3 friends. Why? Because they also did not reach any substantial conviction of Job (and yet declared him guilty anyway). Here again it appears Elihu is angry because he is ardent for a conviction of Job, whom every reader knows is innocent based on chapters 1 & 2.

Additionally, isn't it interesting that Elihu is angry at Job's 3 friends for a different reason than God? We are told why Elihu is angry (mentioned above) but God is angry at Job's 3 friends because they did not speak rightly of God "as My servant Job has". Isn't that interesting?

Elihu condemns Job for his words. God affirms Job for his words. Hm.

I tend to agree.
Each of Job's "friends" had something to say in an attempt to make Job feel guilty when he was in fact innocent.
Even his wife told him, "Curse God and die."

God blinks/winks/refuses to see sins, when the sins being committed are unknown.
Job was declared by God Himself to be righteous yet the bible says, "there are none righteous, no, not one."
Job was living his life in accordance to his understanding of God's will.
He even made sin sacrifices for his children on the off-hand chance they may have unknowingly committed sin.

But no human is infallible, omniscient. "All have sinned and fallen short."

In the end God said to him, "Did you make the mountains, did you set the borders of the seas, etc."?
Job realized his self righteous behavior and repented.
He came out the other side blessed by God with more wealth, more lands more servants, children that were more handsome and beautiful than before.
And he became a better person after realizing how self righteous he had become.

 

[Davidstarr]

It is not a trick question. He can say yes or not to either question. Or he can say yes to both, or no to both. I know yes or no questions are hard. You have to commit. Stating that a question is a straw man is just another way of avoiding the question, especially when it will reflect poorly on the man who has been placed on a pedestal.






It was a hard question, and Jesus answered it. Jesus didn't say it was a straw man's tactic to avoid the question.

Nope. You asked an "either or" question.

 

[tttallison]

Nope. You asked an "either or" question.

If you are going to answer for Christopher at least try to get it right. Christopher never answers the hard questions.

 

[Davidstarr]

If you are going to answer for Christopher at least try to get it right. Christopher never answers the hard questions.

I will not answer your question either.

 

[christophernyc]

One last thing, while I agree that Job was not suffering because he was a sinner (this is, in point of fact, one of the most important things that we learn from the Book of Job, yes? .. a point that was clearly lost on the Scribes, Pharisees, and even the Lord's disciples, in the 1st Century .. e.g. John 9).

Yes. Agreed. At the same time, I do not believe Job is someone who has never sinned. According to Job's own words, he knows himself to be a sinner.

Job 10:14
If I sin, then Thou markest me, and Thou wilt not acquit me from mine iniquity.

Job knows God does not let him get away with sin. He clearly acknowledges that if and when he sins, God always holds him to account.

It's clear Job has learned how to turn away from his sin and turn to God whenever he's convicted. Also, God's testimony confirms this (twice) when God Himself states that Job fears God and turns away from evil.

But in the story of Job we read, we know Job has not sinned to incur his suffering. Every reader knows Job is not being punished for some sin. God's own words articulate this when God explicitly says Job's suffering is "without cause" in Job 2:3. This is obviously the part his 3 friends struggle with, but it should not confuse the readers of the story.

I hope to reply to the second part of your post separately. Thanks!

 

[tttallison]

Yes. Agreed. At the same time, I do not believe Job is someone who has never sinned. According to Job's own words, he knows himself to be a sinner.

Job 10:14
If I sin, then Thou markest me, and Thou wilt not acquit me from mine iniquity.

Job knows God does not let him get away with sin. He clearly acknowledges that if and when he sins, God always holds him to account.

It's clear Job has learned how to turn away from his sin and turn to God whenever he's convicted. Also, God's testimony confirms this (twice) when God Himself states that Job fears God and turns away from evil.

But in the story of Job we read, we know Job has not sinned to incur his suffering. Every reader knows Job is not being punished for some sin. God's own words articulate this when God explicitly says Job's suffering is "without cause" in Job 2:3. This is obviously the part his 3 friends struggle with, but it should not confuse the readers of the story.

I hope to reply to the second part of your post separately. Thanks!

It does not say Job's suffering was without cause.

 

[Davidstarr]

It does not say Job's suffering was without cause.

Job 2:3 "And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause."
The Hebrew word is ḥinnām and means just what it says, without cause.

 

[tttallison]

Job 2:3 "And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause."
The Hebrew word is ḥinnām and means just what it says, without cause.

It does not say Job suffered without cause. It says Satan's motive for having God move against Job was without cause. Satan's motive was that Job would curse God to his face, and Job blessed God instead. That was the first test, and Job passed. It says nothing about why God allowed the test in the first place, and doesn't answer why God allowed a second test. God is omniscient and new Job would pass the first test. God also new that Job would fail the second test. The scripture never tells us what God's cause was for allowing the tests, but what we do know is that God knew the results before the tests took place.